1870 EK2 with "25" eichenlaub

[speedytop]

Hi streptile,

Premier-Lieutenant = First Lieutenant

There was a "Reitende Abteilung des Pommerschen Feldartillerie-Regiments Nr. 2" in Belgard, but only since 1884, please see "Garnison":

http://www.belgard.org/Ortsgesch/Belgard/belgard.htm

and

http://www.lexikon-der-wehrmacht.de/...nBelgard-R.htm

The "Abteilung" (battalion) is a part of the regiment.


Festungs-Artillerie-Regiment, II. battalion in Kolberg


The "7. pommersches Infanterieregiement "von der Goltz" Nr. 54" was a Füsilierregiment, stationed in Kolberg and Cöslin

Regards
Uwe

[streptile]

Premier-Lieutenant = First Lieutenant
There was a "Reitende Abteilung des Pommerschen Feldartillerie-Regiments Nr. 2" in Belgard, but only since 1884.
The "Abteilung" (battalion) is a part of the regiment.
Festungs-Artillerie-Regiment, II. battalion in Kolberg
The "7. pommersches Infanterieregiement "von der Goltz" Nr. 54" was a Füsilierregiment, stationed in Kolberg and Cöslin
Regards, Uwe

Thanks Uwe! The whole thing answered in one post. I really appreciate it, and those links are great. I've been to Bialogard/Belgard, and I must say they've either done some restoration in the past ten years, or those are some pretty good photographers.

I just have one more question:. In 1870, which is the period under discussion here, did Füsiliers exist? The entry in the list of 1870 EK holders shows one name as a 'Musketier.' I thought perhaps Musketiers in 1870 become Füsiliers (as some Cavalry battalions became Armored battalions in the US Army as equipment was upgraded) in 1914, which is the time period covered by the reference material I've got on the structure of the Prussian/German Amries?

I will discover the correct ownership of the EK! My gradfather is on the case, too, as I've mentioned.

~Trevor

[speedytop]

Hi Trevor,

It was not really important, to be named at that time as Füsilier or Musketier:

"By the 1880s the title was honorific and, while implying 'specialist' or 'elite', did not have any tactical significance. In a sense all infantry were becoming fusiliers, as weapons, tactics and equipment took on the fusilier characteristics"

The name is based rather on the tradition.

You can find Füsiliere in the prussian Army since the 17th century.

Uwe

[streptile]

Thanks again Uwe!







Now if you'd only stop calling this Ek a "copy"!

[speedytop]

Hi,

"Now if you'd only stop calling this Ek a "copy"!"

That is not possible for me! Never in my life!

My passion is the historical truth, and not the wishful thinking of some collectors.

Uwe

[streptile]

Hi all,

First: Sascha and Uwe, thank you both for your help in this thread. I'm at the point in my research now that just takes a little time: my grandfather, who's got the family connections, has taken the lead on tracking down this EK's owner, and he uses mail and -- rarely -- the telephone. I will post the results here, though.

For now I'll add these photos of this set as it came to me.

It starts off as a small wooden box with a metal hinge, inlaid with a silver border around the lid and an EK motif in silver:



Opening the box:



There was blue-ish tissue inside when I got this. Being young and inexperienced, I threw the tissue away. I've replaced it with something similar, but modern. The arrangement of the tissue is as I remember it, and the arrangement of the box's contents is exactly as it was when I received it. First layer... two pins. Maybe cufflinks?



Take those out and there's more tissue. Pull it up and you see the KDM (this photo also shows the reverse of the pins/cufflinks):



Take out the KDM, and -- finally -- there is the EK2:



Well, that's it for now. I've already shown large photos of the awards in the thread, so please scroll down to see them.

Best,
Trevor

All closed up for sleeping (also showing the hinge):

[Brian S]

This is the exact same EKII as my great grandfather's. That's nice to see... Especially since I thought maybe this one was the awarded one. And now I have a little evidence to suggest maybe more strongly it was the awarded one. Yours and mine have DIFFERENT 25 devices. That's a good sign. Means the EKII's came from the same die but the devices purchased seperately and are different. The EKII's were restruck in the 1890's. Makes sense the EKII's came from the same die the 25 devices would have been the same! They are not The photographs I have show similarities but I've learned not to get too excited about 'close'.

My great grandfather was in Fusilier Reg. No., 35. It'll be interesting to see who your relative was.

[Brian S]

I know you're asking who the hell is this guy, I'm not trying to hijack your thread other than to be thrilled to see another cross like ours so here you go, says it all

[streptile]

Very cool, Brian. Do you show your set somewhere on the forum? I'm not sure what to search for. Also, there must be other family 1870EK2s here on the WAF, no?

[Brian S]

No, it's a pretty small club. But there are some pretty serious collectors who are devoted enough to the history and preservation that they might as well be family connected. Don't tell them I said that, nobody is much into hugs around here.

[Biro]

While I don't have the family connection you two gents do, I do have the Ek2 w/oaks and document attributed to a Württemburg banker.

Wilhelm Jeremias

The EK2 core is exactly the same as both of yours, although the eye ring is attached to a nub on the frame. I have no indication as to whether it is award or purchased together with the oaks
during the Jubilee period... In wear

I'm inclined to think the latter...

Hugs now?


Marshall

[Brian S]

No hugs yet Marshall. I have photos of my ggGrandF. wearing the EKII he first got awarded. Then in older age wearing a medal bar with Jub. And then in older age wearing a suit covered with pinback awards and an RAO neck 2nd class. ...and, the EKII singularly with Jub. I wish to believe the Jub. purchased EKII was on the bar and he left the awarded piece alone. And I wish to believe the evidence of the one above backs that up.

IF purchased in Jub. period, you'd believe as a set. As a set why not both matching? The cores match, the Jubs. don't.

You're going to ruin this hug Marshall...

[Biro]

I've seen this type described as 'award type' by the likes of Niemann and others.. so there is every reason to beleive it is the cross they were awarded.

My photo is unfortunately not dated, or that could have answered my question easily.

Also, it's entirely possible that the same (Wagner) style of cross awarded in 1870 was still available as private purchase in 1890, so all scenarios can be realistically entertained.

Love to see a pic of ggGrandF in all his glory with his EK2 - is it posted on your site?

Hugs...

Marshall

[streptile]

Really great set there, Marshall. How nice to have the award document and a period photo. Did it all come together?

The "25" device on my EK has an interesting attachment mechanism that I feel sure was home-made. I can try to photograph it tomorrow: it's almost like a safety pin was broken in half and soldered on the back. Basically, it's completely removable without breaking anything. Also, the ribbons on the KDM and the EK are neatly sewn up as I mentioned earlier. Someone took some care with these decorations.

As for whether or not these are originals (awarded examples)... I can't say that I have any definitive proof one way or the other about mine, except that no one in my family back then was particularly well to-do, and I'd imagine the expense of buying a replacement would've been impractical. Not much to go on, but it's something.

I've seen this type described as 'award type' by the likes of Niemann and others..

I find this interesting. I've heard this expression used in connection with Wagner and Godet EK1s, but not with EK2s. Good to know!

~Trevor

[saschaw]

There is and has never been any doubt the style as shown here was the awarded one in 1870/71. Early replacement crosses by the same makers might be very close (actually, to close to see a difference!), but this is the (only) accepted style for the award period. The "short 7" that was made by Godet came early, but not as. I think those began in mid-70s.

Nices crosses!