1870 EK2 - The Full Monty

[old siagon]

Hello Friends,

Talk about an awsome garage sale find! Local sale which initially looked unpromissing. I always make it a habit to ask people if they have any military items or firearms.

This last weekend I really hit the bonanza! A full 1870 set and a very rare WW2 German North Sea marked Luger. There was a footlocker with many other odds and ends that came with the deal...nothing super to mention except these two gems!

I love this hobby!

Happy Hunting,
Vince

[grueni1208]

I never saw an original 1870 EK II with maker's mark.
I believe they used a 1914 frame and a 1870 EK II core fake.

Regards

Daniel

[old siagon]

I never saw an original 1870 EK II with maker's mark.
I believe they used a 1914 frame and a 1870 EK II core fake.

Regards

Daniel

Yes,

It is amazing how many WW2 veterans brought home "faked" warbooty. Who would do a "fake" job like this in 1945????? Too bad this Gentleman has passed on and I cannot ask where and how he got it. I can tell you it has been in this trunk since he came home from Germany in 1945. Never say never with Iron Crosses amigo, I could write a book!
Vince

[Montgomery Burns]

the ek2looks like a '9th bead'fake.

not chure but,,,

jou have closeups off the crown on the front ?

regards kay

[old siagon]

the ek2looks like a '9th bead'fake.

not chure but,,,

jou have closeups off the crown on the front ?

regards kay

Hi Kay,

Long time. I hope this short note finds you well. What is a "9th bead"?
Cheers,
Vince

[gregM]

Hi Vince,
There is a fairly common fake 1870 that we have named the "9th bead
fake" The most obvious thing to look for is the beading in the crown
on the front of the cross. The 9th bead from the left is oversized and
sometimes becomes somewhat polished from handeling making it easy
to spot.

[gregM]

"9th bead" crosses always have a 1870 date that uses a over/under
style "8".

Here is a 1870 date from a 9th bead fake cross.

[Steve Campbell]

The 1914 clasp on the ribbon is most likely fake also. I believe these are almost always fake.

[old siagon]

The 1914 clasp on the ribbon is most likely fake also. I believe these are almost always fake.

Hello,

If I were you, I would find another hobby. Just my simple opinion.
Vince

[Steve Campbell]

Hello,

If I were you, I would find another hobby. Just my simple opinion.
Vince

Why do you say that? I meant no offense. I was under the impression that these clasps were extremly rare and most encountered were fakes. If I'm wrong I'll accept that.

[gregM]

The 1914 clasp on the ribbon is most likely fake also. I believe these are almost always fake.

Steve is right.
There is a huge debate over these. Most people now believe these
to be fake. With only slightly more than 900 awarded (which would
mean maybe 1100-1200?? produced) they turn up on ebay and dealer
sites far to frequently. Untill we see one on a unmessed with medalbar
who's ownership can be traced back to the original recipient, We may
never know for sure if they are fake or not.

I personally hope they turn out to be good as I have owned one for
about 10 years but I'm not holding my breath.

[juoneen]

Kay was it a post war made item??If so that would rule out finding it in a german museum during the war.Although Many vets who retired there in phx..bought stuff at shows in phoenix, and other venues.(fairgrounds gun show thomas vfw etc) Maybe he bought it at an az show decades ago.

If you can find out his name, you might ask some of the bigger dealers in mesa if they knew him, and if he bought the cross from them. You know the bunch(KC, LS, GN etc.)Lots of fakes get sold in az. Difficult place to find regular german items at a yard sale, but occasionally the blind sow gets an acorn. Many collectors scour glendale,40th and wash. P&S, also apache junt, sun city, auctions, tucson, and more. When auctions get german things , rare to get any deals. An occasional contact to a vets widow, can yield a few baubles, but even sun city stuff usually go to their kids, and isnt sold there .Congratulation regardless, for what you most likely paid, id say you have an example of a rare cross, and i too also hope the best for it to be original, but aint holding my breath either. Not often do vets have lugers with highlighted marks, usually just dealers , most vet found lugers i have gotten in my life are just as found , no enhancements. Good shooter anyway. Keep hunting.

[Biro]

...If I were you, I would find another hobby. Just my simple opinion....Vince

Well you're right on one thing - it is 'simple'.

What an arrogant comment to make when in fact Steve Campbell is quite correct. The 1914 Spange to EK2 is so heavily faked, it is barely collectable these days. EK Spange 1870

The EK2 is indeed a 9th bead fake. The odds of a real WHS and Oaks attatched to a known fake iron cross? Slim.

Still, if you got this 1870/1914 combination from the bottom of a WW2 vets trunk, then it must be good...

Can't wait to read your book... 'Amigo'....

[old siagon]

Well you're right on one thing - it is 'simple'.

What an arrogant comment to make when in fact Steve Campbell is quite correct. The 1914 Spange to EK2 is so heavily faked, it is barely collectable these days. EK Spange 1870

The EK2 is indeed a 9th bead fake. The odds of a real WHS and Oaks attatched to a known fake iron cross? Slim.

Still, if you got this 1870/1914 combination from the bottom of a WW2 vets trunk, then it must be good...

Can't wait to read your book... 'Amigo'....

Hello,

I am sorry you are obviously not able to locate origonal militaria. This item is 100% correct but you know that. This is the only problem with these forums, dealing with know it alls who actually know nothing.

If you think you can authenticate an item by a photo you must be superman and have x-ray vision to boot. What you cannot see are the makers marks inside the 1914 clasp and it goes on. By your ignorant remarks I can see you are not worth any more of my time. As for my book amigo, dont worry it will have a lot of pictures.

Good luck!

[Biro]

..This item is 100% correct but you know that. This is the only problem with these forums, dealing with know it alls who actually know nothing...

What is a "9th bead"? Cheers, Vince

The irony is beautifull...

Enjoy your cross Vince.