Naval ribbon bars

[Klaus O.]

Dear Imperialoids,

I am posting it for Ricky (Lundström) who asked me for and also for stimulating collectors to show their typical combinations of Naval German Ribbon bars (trapezoidal, ribbons 10 or 15 mm). This one is obviously from a Imperial Navy officer (notice also the dark blue backing on the reverse) who was in service also in the German South West Africa. I am bit puzzled by the double RAO (Roter Adler-Orden) in the fifth and eighth place. The last one must be a peace time awarded RAO, but the other should be having some sort of ribbon device... or not?

Here we are...

Ciao,

Claudio

[Christian L]

nice bar claudio!
but its not dswa its the colonial rememberance medal ribbon.
its a beauty
do you think, its possible to find out who the wearer was?
christian

[Klaus O.]

Whoops!... Sorry... Thanks for the correction Christian... Yes it's the "Kolonial-Denkmünze"!

Ciao,

Claudio

[Rick Research]

The mounting precedence is screwy, with the double long services and double "Red Eagles" split apart, but what I think we have here is the post-October 1936 bar of a Leutnant der Marine aD who was a former Deckoffizier.

Here's why I think that:

After the new Wehrmacht long service awards began being handed out, members of the "old" "Wehrmacht" often decided that they were (incorrectly!!!) retroactively entitled to wear two of THEIRS... in this case most likely an XXV and XV like the one that will come up here on my bar if you type in search word "Venezuela."

Beamten also could wear double Prussian/Reichs long services for concurrent service as a full time official and a part time reserve officer, so groups with an XXV and XX or Reserve-Landwehr medal are not uncommon. But those sorts of officials rarely got an award like the Bavarian one on the combat frontline ribbon, as here--instead of their "war merit" ribbon instead. Can't find a "frontline" one for any navy official/reserve officer. I don't think the limited potential deviceless Third Reich long services make any sense here as a possibility for the 2nd plain dark blue ribbon.

TWO "Red Eagle" ribbons (and neither is a faded Hamburg Hanseatic, they are BOTH clearly the same orange) make sense ONLY if one is the Allgemeine Ehrenzeichen silver medal, and the other was the Red Eagle Order MEDAL. Those were fairly common as a pair... to Deck (Warrant) Officers.

That makes the Bavarian ribbon here that of a MMC 2nd class with crown and swords and not a MMO 4th class with crown and swords.

Although that still doesn't clarify what this guy thought he was doing splitting his doubled awards, it does identify what he had been:

a career Warrant Officer in the navy with continuous service from before 1897, and so entitled by "18 plus years" to a discharge commission as Leutnant der Marine aD, a rank created after the war for such long serving Petty and Warrant Officers.

Too bad he didn't spring for a tiny bar to his Colonial Medal! There were NO listings in Rank Lists even for officers for any of the three colonial campaign medals. That has to be derived from awards showing up in annual Rank Lists when they were posted to colonial war areas, and other non-Rank List sources.

[Daniel Krause]

Hi Claudio!

Nice and interesting one!!!!

You want small trapezoids?
I have one mady from 25mm ribbons, not sure it was a navy guy because of the red backing:

Best regards

Daniel

[Daniel Krause]

back:

[Rick Research]

I don't find a match in the Imperial Navy or either Reichswehr branch.

Presence of the Order of the Crown of Italy on the end suggests this is from the 1920s, since an enemy award shouldn't have been worn during the war.

Nobody in Anhalt Inf Rgt 93 seems to match either.

[Brian R]

This Navy Bar just in... a Southwest Africa/ World War I veteran. I would imagine that this guy joined up around the turn of the century (no Centennial Medal) and wore this bar post 1934. It is interesting that it is pinbacked with backing plate - the plate is painted black.

1914 EK2
Militär-Ehrenzeichen 2. Klasse
Honor Cross
25 Year Service Cross
SouthWest Africa Medal 1904-1906

[Brian R]

Reverse...

[Rick Research]

VERY interesting! I've never seen a TAB BACK rhomboid like this before, let alone a black (rather than Feldgrau) painted backing!

What width ribbons are these-- 15mm or 25mm? What's the height of the bar?

[Brian R]

VERY interesting! I've never seen a TAB BACK rhomboid like this before, let alone a black (rather than Feldgrau) painted backing!

What width ribbons are these-- 15mm or 25mm? What's the height of the bar?

I thought it was pretty interesting too, especially after reading (over and over) your ribbon bar article.

The ribbons and the height of the bar are both 25mm.

Brian

By the way, I like your new last name

[Rick Research]

Thanks! Added to my files!

(Luckily, unlike that fool Donald Trump, I did the whole Rick™©® thing! )

[stogieman]

Yep....

... for once I looked at bidders and saw your name... Congrats! A rare and special bar!

[Brian R]

... for once I looked at bidders and saw your name... Congrats! A rare and special bar!

Thanks Rick. I'm very excited to have been able to add this bar to my collection.

Brian

[Daniel Krause]

rare and nice bar! I also see this style the first time!