Latvian Fakes

[Napoleon XIV]

What are the distinquishing characteristics? I hear about them a lot... so much so that I'm getting the feeling that they make up the majority of the Latvian GNP

[Napoleon XIV]

No one has any info on them?

[Bill M]

--Try doing a search, should come up with something.

[Vadim K]

Yep, do a search on "latvian" in Imperial forum, you should come up with a number of threads. Also, do a search on "muffin crown".

Bill, why are you up at 2am?

[Bill M]

--Since I had my cervical surgery, I've been up
till the wee hours...

[Napoleon XIV]

Just did a search, not a whole lot surprsiingly...

Lots of dead links to old ebay auctions, but few actual pictures and descriptions...

Muffin Crown turned up a few good examples that I've already seen.

[Tim Tezer]

Try this link to see an 1870 EK1 fake that sold on Ebay last week for $488. It may not be posted for long, but I saved photos of it, so if I can ever get home to my own computer, I'll see if I can post the photos:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tem=2195092756

This seller also had a 1914 that was identical except for the date on the obverse, which is basically impossible. The 1914's were quite different than the 1870's. As an 1870, this is a pretty bad fake - not maker marked with anything close to the original makers' names (Wagner or Godet), and the style of the hinge and pin are completely wrong and the detail on the obverse is not nearly crisp enough for an 1870.

As a fake 1914, however, this could be very convincing. The details on 1914s were not as sharply defined, so that wouldn't give it away. A small hinge of this type might have been used on a 1914. But the pin is still unique on these pieces - it has noticeably rounded edges, and it has a shape that is kind of too "bulbous" in the center. That's not a very good description, but it's the best I can do.

The best way to keep abreast of Latvian fakes is to look for EKs that are being offered by sellers in Latvia, and saving the photos. They are usually very generous in providing detailed photos, I suppose because they are proud of their workmanship. They generally use the same or similar dies for making 1813, 1870, 1914 and 1939 crosses, so once you identify a type you can spot the characteristics across all years.

Be careful out there.

Tim

[Doug See]

Also keep a watchful eye out on any 1870 or 1914 EK's on eBay sold from the UK. That's where the last 2 Latvian fakes on eBay originated.

[Doug See]

Just to clarify. This is according to past information posted here or my observations on eBay. The Latvian fakes appear to be laser cut and somewhat artfully aged. Very detailed--almost too detailed. They make 1870, 194, and 1939 EK1's, both pinback and 1939 screwbacks. All have similar characteristics. Some are marked, some are not. The 1939's are marked 800, 900, or 50. The 1914's are marked 800 or 900. I believe I've just seen one of their 1870's with a convincing Wagner and Son mark. They have been sold on eBay out of Latvia, Spartanburg SC, and the most recently the UK.

The "muffin crown" 1870 and 1914 EK1's and EK2's were made in the UK and originally sold from Pieces of History in Cave Creek AZ (now called something else like Medals of History and not advertising the Cave Creek address). The detail is horrible and the frames are sloppy. The pins are cheap and marked with a G (1870's) or a 3 (1914's). They are artifically rusted OR they are newly painted flat black. The 1870 EK2's are usually seen with "25th Jubilee" oaks. Like the Latvian ones, they are also 3 piece and magnetic. They have been sold on eBay by "the82nd" and others.

There has been a fair amount of fake activity coming out of the United Kingdom (knowingly and unknowingly) , as well as Latvia.

[Tim Tezer]

I have tried to post pictures of the fakes from those Ebay listings into the forum for posterity. Unfortunately, I have not been able to get the images to show up. As far as I can tell, I did everything right, but when I preview the posts, they come up as blank squares, so I don't know what the problem is. If I can ever figure it out, I'll post the pics, otherwise - c'est la guerre.

Tim