Cased S&L PLM and card

[darryl-P]

Gentlemen,

I would appreciate your views on this cased (S&L ?) Pour le Merite and seller's card which I picked up over the weekend. The fellow I got it from told me that it was found in Germany during the 1960s.

Many thanks,

[CSForrester]

The firm "Die Ordenssammlung" was founded by Dr. Kurt Georg Klietmann (former official under Dr. Doehle in the Präsidialkanzlei/Ordenskanzlei des Führers) in the 1950th. He was married wis a daughter of Mr. Godet and Wielandstr. 16 was the former shop of Godet. I was there in 1976 and it had still the old flair of imperial times.
It is not shure that Klietmann or his firm themselves produced Orders, but they made medalbars and ribbonbars, they bought and sold original decorations and they sold "fakes" from other firms.
But i cant say anything about your PLM, the ribbon looks very bad, missing the silver bouillon thread, the case looks like 1950th. May be a set from Steinhauer, sold in the 1950th by Klietmann.

Regards
CSForrester

[paddywhack]

can you get bigger pics of the PLM? looks abit like a 60s S&L PLM!

[regular122]

Nice set. It looks like a typical S&L and gives us a glimpse in how these were obtained from a medals vendor just like old times. I think the ribbon is fine, it is probably just the lighting and the fact that it is so well preserved in the case that it looks white instead of silver. My guess is that the metal thread is there by the weave.

This is great to have an example of an S&L that could be purchased by recipients still living or whomever else. I am sure most went to collectors but we do know these were actually worn by some recipients in the 1960s-70s. Very nice example. Steve

[darryl-P]

can you get bigger pics of the PLM? looks abit like a 60s S&L PLM!

Yes, as I mentioned in my initial text...it looks like an S&L and it was picked up in Germany in the 1960s.

Here is a larger scanned image of the medal for you.

Cheers,

[darryl-P]

The firm "Die Ordenssammlung" was founded by Dr. Kurt Georg Klietmann (former official under Dr. Doehle in the Präsidialkanzlei/Ordenskanzlei des Führers) in the 1950th. He was married wis a daughter of Mr. Godet and Wielandstr. 16 was the former shop of Godet. I was there in 1976 and it had still the old flair of imperial times.
It is not shure that Klietmann or his firm themselves produced Orders, but they made medalbars and ribbonbars, they bought and sold original decorations and they sold "fakes" from other firms.
But i cant say anything about your PLM, the ribbon looks very bad, missing the silver bouillon thread, the case looks like 1950th. May be a set from Steinhauer, sold in the 1950th by Klietmann.

Regards
CSForrester

CS,

Thank you for the information on the original seller of this Order. Regarding the ribbon looking bad...not sure why since it is the original ribbon with the medal. The ribbon is 2 feet in length.

Here is a scanned image.

[darryl-P]

Nice set. It looks like a typical S&L and gives us a glimpse in how these were obtained from a medals vendor just like old times. I think the ribbon is fine, it is probably just the lighting and the fact that it is so well preserved in the case that it looks white instead of silver. My guess is that the metal thread is there by the weave.

This is great to have an example of an S&L that could be purchased by recipients still living or whomever else. I am sure most went to collectors but we do know these were actually worn by some recipients in the 1960s-70s. Very nice example. Steve

Hi Steve,

As always, thank you for your reply. It is interesting to see the "Britischer Sektor" information on the card...it certainly dates this piece to the Berlin of the 1960s.

Do you have a feel for what something like this is worth on the market today? I hope I didn't pay too much for it...although it is a handsome piece and displays very well.

Cheers,

[paddywhack]

i seen them go from E600 to E1000s!MAYBE abit more as it pretty much mint!!

[regular122]

i seen them go from E600 to E1000s!MAYBE abit more as it pretty much mint!!

I think that estimate is pretty close.

These sell for around $800 without the case. I saw one w/o case sell on German eBay (but would only ship to Germany) for $175 this week which was an absolute steal. He was listing it as a fake. And I saw a Cevaljo fake sold as real for E800. Go figure.

But I would rate this piece above $800 because of the vendor, case, and history behind it. Depends on how people view S&Ls. The only thing that could make for a better example of an S&L in my opinion would be if the piece were attributed. So, I think you did good to get it as it is one of the finest S&L pieces I've seen to surface on the web to date. Congrats. Steve

[darryl-P]

Thank you gentlemen. I appreciate all the great information and your opinions. I have another S&L example which I bought a few years ago which is marked "800" on the lower arm. This cased one has no marking whatsoever. Interestingly, there is a noticeable difference in both the overall quality and in the colour of the metal on these two crosses...possibly different eras of manufacture? The cased cross is a deeper gold while the other example I own has a more silver tone to it.

I will post side by side comparison pics as soon as I am able.

Cheers,

[darryl-P]

Here is the comparison pic. The cased medal is on the right, the "800" marked medal is on the left.

[paddywhack]

well then darrel you and i are in a rare club! from what i understand there is only a few known 800 marked S&L PLMs and im a member to!!!!

[Don D.]

Hi Steve,

As always, thank you for your reply. It is interesting to see the "Britischer Sektor" information on the card...it certainly dates this piece to the Berlin of the 1960s.

Do you have a feel for what something like this is worth on the market today? I hope I didn't pay too much for it...although it is a handsome piece and displays very well.

Cheers,

Actually the British Sector, along with the American and French Sectors existed from 1945-1991.

[darryl-P]

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