Pour le Merite – help needed.

[Pas de croix]

I know you have discussed PlM before but I know nothing about these crosses.
http://plm.gotavapen.se/#11.0
I have found this Pour le Merite and I wonder if it is a Steinhauer & Lück or a fake? It was found very dirty in Germany about 20 years ago. It has no markings at all.
Sorry to disturb you but can I have your opinion please?

[Pas de croix]

reverse

[Pas de croix]

pic 3

[Pas de croix]

Ribbon

[paddywhack]

well S & L made then as the 1957 version that was made officially for vets be really probably more for collectors!!though theres a silver gilt version marked 800 that they also do that may or may not have been made pre ww2!though the jury is still out on that! not sure of this one!looks like a 57 version but the lads im sure will tell you when its made!

[Montgomery Burns]

jesus ,,,not knowing ennything about it ,,and buying plm's.

[paddywhack]

actually thats a point how much are they looking it for??

[ejwahl1]

jesus ,,,not knowing ennything about it ,,and buying plm's.

Comments like this are completely useless, take up space and contribute absolutely nothing to assist the originator of the thread in getting an answer to his question.

Regards,

Ed

[Wild Card]

jesus ,,,not knowing ennything about it ,,and buying plm's.

[JG 51]

Comments like this are completely useless, take up space and contribute absolutely nothing to assist the originator of the thread in getting an answer to his question.

Regards,

Ed

I agree, Pas de croix is asking a question in a very humble way and get a comment like that. Come on, show some manners

[jacquesf]

Who died and made you the Pour le Merite God. Jacques

jesus ,,,not knowing ennything about it ,,and buying plm's.

[colt45s]

looks like the one i sold at the flea mkt. for $35 , well made .. a little slopy and not as heavy as the real one i saw

[Claudius]

Alright...I have the temerity to respond about the PLM in question.

I think it's a copy and was not made to even to try to pass off as real. Or at least, it is not passing off as period.

The enamel is overly smooth, convex and a bit too shiny. And its hard to tell by the photo, but it looks like on the 3 o'clock arm, reverse side it didn't flow into the farthest corner.

The medal around the ring hole and the eagles are rough without the hint of polishing. Almost cast-like.

The lettering is too even and pronounced. It is very "new" looking.

In the end Pas de Croix, you will need to do a lot more research into PLM styles and construction types before you would consider buying this as a real one. The question isn't:

"Gee, how lucky am I to get a chance at buying this."
It's;
"Why am I so lucky as to get a chance at buying this?"

As a copy for an example it's well worth some $. Buy don't pay $$$.

Just my $.02

[regular122]

In my opinion, this is a typical S&L from the 1960s or later period from the pics. Bears all the marks and characteristics. Contrary to what the pics may reveal, the enamel on these and the overall dimensions far exceed a poor copy or fake.

Claudius notes the enamel gap and it is hard to tell from the pic. It is not uncommon to see a chipped corner piece fall out if harshly handled on these pieces. The surface chip on the top arm left corner shows this one has seen some rough handling of some kind.

Categorize these where you will, but I do not believe these crosses are in your typical $35-$75 fake category. To me, they are more like a '57 piece in comparative authenticity and value. Known recipients are even known to have worn these at their reunions. The last living recipient, Ernst Junger, wore an example like this until he died. So they thought a bit better of them and S&L provided them at least until 1980 from what my research has shown.

For more on S&Ls, see this thread:

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...ight=Study+PlM

As to value? They seem to have capped around the $800 mark in excellent condition and if this can be found for under half that, I would consider it if you are looking for a fill piece. This is just my opinion. Hope this helps and would welcome more questions or discussion. Steve

[dmytro]

It seems to me that there are significant file marks as indicated on the these and other arms, suggesting that it is a one piece casting, Did S&L use one piece castings?
http://img359.imageshack.us/my.php?image=plmam1.jpg