Hello, I was asked by Steve to move this PLM and start it as a new thread. I attached the old one in the "Study of the PLM series" Regards, Grant.
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What great detailing on these eagles' wings!
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I have no clue if it is real authentic or not but I like it.Comment
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What a great piece!Comment
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Greg and Leroy,
thanks for the comments. Steve, do you have any thoughts or comments on this piece? I started and moved this thread, per your instructions. Can anyone else share some insight on this piece.
regards, GrantComment
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Grant,
This is some beautiful kind of cross. It is truly a unique one of a kind. I will try to makes some observations.
First of all, I do not think this cross can be attributed to any of the known makers. That said, I also think it is very likely that it is authentic and predates 1900. Even in the photos, it looks like it is gold. I am not surprised then that it tested to be so.
Characteristics:
- In general appearance, at first glance it could be mistaken for a Rothe style cross. But upon observation, the shape of the arms, the center, the letters, and especially the crown look nothing like a typical Rothe.
- The Letters are very unusual. They almost appear to be raised with details rather than chased.
- The Crown is remarkable and looks more like an EK crown than any kind of PlM. Its detail and workmanship are of the highest order.
- The pie wedge looks very much like a Baudesson or a Hossauer or a pre-1890 Godet. It, more than any other feature, sets it apart from a post-1900 PlM. The square marks on the rim are consistent with a gold-content placement as the cross would not allow for marks on the 6 o'clock arm,
- The Eagles, while upon first glance look like Rothes, are really nothing of the kind. They have Godet style cockaded heads. Their wings are low on the body like a Baudesson. The feet are like Godet. The tali feathers are like Rothe and the wing shape seems to be a combination of Godet and Wagner. In other words, they are totally something unique and hand-crafted. Their workmanship represents the finest detailing I have ever seen on a PlM eagle.
- Enamel looks very high in quality with no pock marks or serrated edges commonly seen on fakes or even Rothes.
Personally, I think this cross is legitimate. The detail and workmanship are far and away above what one would expect for any kind of fake. You mentioned the cross came with dozens of other medals. I find this interesting. I know personally that some vets carried off many high awards from the basement of churches where turned in decorations were stored. One such veteran provided over 50 such high quality awards to the National Infantry Museum and he stated that he carried all that he could fit in his helmet. He stated that other soldiers had taken scores of them and he was about five minutes late. These awards he donated were some of the highest state decorations awarded.
We may never know on this cross. But it is so far to the right of even a high quality fake, that I think it deserves serious discussion. Most fakes are duplicated to make money. When one high quality one turns up, you can expect more. I have never seen any other cross like this, real or fake.
I believe it it quite possible that it is a private, made-to-order piece that in style, appears to predate the 20th century.
Let the fur fly. SteveComment
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Steve,
WOW!! Many thanks. I had a gut feeling that it was an original cross, but I never would have guessed that it would date that early. I did buy the book by Steven Previtera "Prussian Blue" and did some reading, but I didn't see anything like my cross. I was leaning towards Godet being the manufacturer, because of the shape of eagle's head, pie wedge, and the center where the arms of the cross meet. May I ask why it doesn't fall into the category of post 1900 PLM ? You mentioned something about a characteristic of the pie wedge shape,etc... Also, you mentioned that it is unlike any manufacturer that you have seen, would this possibly be a specially designed piece for a wealthy or a very high ranking officer ? If you were to put into a cost relationship between a regular PLM and what it would cost to make one of this quality, in that time frame, what would be the difference ? Many thanks again for all of your information and help. Regards, GrantLast edited by Hohenstaufen; 10-08-2008, 01:50 PM.Comment
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Well, first of all, my opinion is like so many others--an opinion. But I think there is more of a chance this cross is legitimate than not.
As to it being a Godet cross, it has none of the lettering or crown characteristics of any Godet I have seen or studied.
As to why I think it might be pre-1900, it is the heavy dot chasing, the shape of the wedge and the ornate eagles. Chasing and heavy ornamentation tended to decline after the 1880s, and certainly by the time of the First World War.
The pie wedge has the hole nearer the top and from the photos it appears that the strap across the top might even be applied. Hard to tell. But the wedge shape looks so much like the late 1800s crosses and very little like any Godet or variant of Godet made after 1900.
Given the gold and astounding workmanship, I think if original it was a special made piece for someone who could obviously afford it. If a brave young officer, he probably would have had an issue cross instead of this.
Another note I did not mention is the ribbon. It is sort of gold in appearance on one side I believe because the white thread aged and the silver thread gained a patina but stayed silver. The combination of aged, brownish thread and silver thread makes its appearance sort of gold. The fact that it is this way only on the side open to air and display seems to reinforce the point.
On cost relationships, I am no jeweler, but this cross seems to be a factor of three to four to one in time to make it. Maybe more. Especially the eagles.
As to value, there are no absolutes but some guidelines from my observations. Named is better than unnamed. Gold is better than not. Known maker better than not. As striking as this piece is, without provenance and not matching any known manufactured specimen, it will hold a measure of doubt that makes it worth less than its workmanship should demand. What that figure would be is anyone's guess.
Hopefully, Stephen P will see this thread and comment on it for the benefit of all.
If it were mine, I would be VERY happy with it and it would be a keeper. A simply striking piece. SteveLast edited by regular122; 10-09-2008, 01:34 AM.Comment
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