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**Vadim K** · 09-05-2003, 01:48 PM

I have seen one like this before too. Since these were private purchases, could it be that it was simply a preference of the owner? They thought the award would look "cooler"??

**Ed_Haynes** · 09-05-2003, 01:57 PM

That would be my guess too. The only "real" ones after all are those ugly Turkish issues that no one seems to like. (Great, and all the better for those of us who like regional authentic awards.)

Ed Haynes

**translator** · 09-05-2003, 04:39 PM

"Star" with Stones

Originally posted by Ed_Haynes

That would be my guess too. The only "real" ones after all are those ugly Turkish issues that no one seems to like. (Great, and all the better for those of us who like regional authentic awards.)

Ed Haynes

This badge was in my collection at one point in time; it came from a group of badges that were found along with the photo of an unidentified Luftwaffe major who also had been a WWI observer. The group came with an uncased "regular" (i.e. no stones) Half Moon crescent badge. I did some research on the issue of the stones when I owned the piece, and concluded that the stones may have been representative of either a higher class of the award, or the fact that the award had been won "with distinction" of some kind. I would agree that it could also have been a "personal preference" purchase, however.

T.

**Ed_Haynes** · 09-05-2003, 05:45 PM

This is certainly not anything that I have ever seen in the relevant Turkish docuements and statutes, but we can always learn more about Ottoman history and from the Ottoman archives. I'd still guess it may have been a "self-awarded" extra distinction?

Ed Haynes

**stogieman** · 09-05-2003, 05:56 PM

This foto came from...

A Hermann Historica Catalogue, not from one of translator's photos/auctions.

Originally posted by translator

This badge was in my collection at one point in time; it came from a group of badges that were found along with the photo of an unidentified Luftwaffe major who also had been a WWI observer. The group came with an uncased "regular" (i.e. no stones) Half Moon crescent badge. I did some research on the issue of the stones when I owned the piece, and concluded that the stones may have been representative of either a higher class of the award, or the fact that the award had been won "with distinction" of some kind. I would agree that it could also have been a "personal preference" purchase, however.

T.

**Rick Research** · 09-05-2003, 06:47 PM

Gilding the lily: whether improperly done by the original purchaser/recipient or by anyone else at any later time, all that squishing in silly "Liberace" googaws did was to ruin an otherwise fine piece.

**translator** · 09-05-2003, 08:10 PM

Originally posted by Rick Lundström

Gilding the lily: whether improperly done by the original purchaser/recipient or by anyone else at any later time, all that squishing in silly "Liberace" googaws did was to ruin an otherwise fine piece.

I offered the piece to "Stoge" as a result of a sale on eBay of the Observer's Badge which originally formed part of this group; I'm surprised "Stoge" did not recognize it.

The piece was next consigned by me to Hermann Historica, who accepted and catalogued it as "the real deal" without a murmur; it sold for top dollar in their last auction sale. I originally bought the group of awards from which it came from Tom Johnson who acquired it and the group of awards (to a Luft. Major) in which it was found from Cologne, Germany. The piece is absolutely right, but as usual because it does not fit with your narrow viewpoint (i.e. neither of you presently have one in your collection), then somehow it's "wrong". Perhaps you should mention your disdain for the piece to Col. Johnson if you see him at MAX?

T.

**Vadim K** · 09-05-2003, 08:22 PM

I think you are overreacting a bit. Rick V never said there was anything 'wrong" with it, and Rick L is certainly entitled to his opinion just as much as you or Col. Johnson. I am biased in this matter as Eiserner Halbmond is one of my favorite awards, so I would still buy it with these stones (and this one is certainly a beautiful piece, stones or no stones), but honestly, how exactly do you or Col. Johnson know that the stones are period feature and not added later? As for Hermann Historica accepting it as a "real deal", they are not dealers, but an auction house and it is my understanding (please someone correct me if I am wrong) that they just go by what the seller tells them and dont really authenticate pieces on their own.

**translator** · 09-05-2003, 08:39 PM

Originally posted by Vadim K

I think you are overreacting a bit. Rick V never said there was anything 'wrong" with it, and Rick L is certainly entitled to his opinion just as much as you or Col. Johnson. I am biased in this matter as Eiserner Halbmond is one of my favorite awards, so I would still buy it with these stones (and this one is certainly a beautiful piece, stones or no stones), but honestly, how exactly do you or Col. Johnson know that the stones are period feature and not added later? As for Hermann Historica accepting it as a "real deal", they are not dealers, but an auction house and it is my understanding (please someone correct me if I am wrong) that they just go by what the seller tells them and dont really authenticate pieces on their own.

I think you're being oversensitive to my presumed overreaction.
H.H. have a staff of experts who do screen material before it is offered for sale; I know because I have visited their facility in Munich and have seen how the process works. Not just "any" object is accepted by them. While everyone is certainly entitled to their opinion, I believe the opinion of the moderators on this (and other) public forums are given far too much weight by the collecting public in general; hence, I believe the moderators should preface their remarks by the qualifier "in my opinion", even if they become published authors. The piece was in a group found in a house being remodeled in Cologne, Germany. If the stones were added later (and the piece shows no evidence of this), then they were certainly added before WWII.

**Eric Stahlhut** · 09-05-2003, 09:31 PM

Has anyone bothered to establish what these "stones" consist of? They kind of look like marcasite to me, which would make sense, since marcasite was considered a semi-precious stone during this time period and was quite popular in the region spanning from Germany to Turkey.

Curious thing is, if someone was creating this 'variant' with the motive to deceive collectors we all would be far more familiar with it because there would be more than a few on the market, no?

I think someone has posted images of other Turkish awards in the past that could be considered 'variants' as well.

this one sort of reminds me of those "special" French Legion of Honors one encounters from time to time...

**translator** · 09-05-2003, 09:51 PM

Originally posted by Eric Stahlhut

Has anyone bothered to establish what these "stones" consist of? They kind of look like marcasite to me, which would make sense, since marcasite was considered a semi-precious stone during this time period and was quite popular in the region spanning from Germany to Turkey.

Curious thing is, if someone was creating this 'variant' with the motive to deceive collectors we all would be far more familiar with it because there would be more than a few on the market, no?

I think someone has posted images of other Turkish awards in the past that could be considered 'variants' as well.

this one sort of reminds me of those "special" French Legion of Honors one encounters from time to time...

The stones are most likely garnets. Here is the lot description, from Hermann Historica Sale #44 (May, 2003):

"Lot Nr.821
Eiserner Halbmond.
Silber, emailliert, der Halbmond mit sieben roten Steinen besetzt, die vernietete Rs. mit Nadel, Feingehaltspunze "925" und Herstellermarke "AWS". 23,5 g. In Originaletui. Sehr schöne Erhaltung.
Condition: I-II Limit: 250.00 EURO 760,00 EURO "

Iron Half Moon. Silver, enameled, set with seven red stones, the riveted reverse with needle, "925" mark of fineness and maker's mark "AWS". 23.5 g. In original case. Beautiful condition.

The lot realized about $800 U.S.; I was quite happy with that. Whoever won the piece has a nice, original object.

T.

**Eric Stahlhut** · 09-05-2003, 09:59 PM

Ah, garnets!

Well, I have seen AWS 925 Moons before and they are of superior quality (as are all AWS awards).

The thing about AWS items is this: they were a top-drawer 'vanity piece' maker from the 20's. IMO.

**translator** · 09-05-2003, 10:16 PM

Originally posted by Eric Stahlhut

Ah, garnets!

Well, I have seen AWS 925 Moons before and they are of superior quality (as are all AWS awards).

The thing about AWS items is this: they were a top-drawer 'vanity piece' maker from the 20's. IMO.

Yes, this is likely the case. Perhaps the meaning of the stones has to remain a mystery for the time being. Also in this group was a spectacular cased, early form screwback pre-LDO EK1 Spange, so the awardee was not averse to "upgrading".

T.

**stogieman** · 09-05-2003, 10:42 PM

Your comments...

So, I post the picture, ask if anyone knows what the deal is, state that I've seen one other. Since your original photos don't match the one from Hermann Historica, somehow I am supposed to divine that the "2" are one and the same?

I am surprised by both your words, and their tone.

Originally posted by translator

I offered the piece to "Stoge" as a result of a sale on eBay of the Observer's Badge which originally formed part of this group; I'm surprised "Stoge" did not recognize it.

The piece was next consigned by me to Hermann Historica, who accepted and catalogued it as "the real deal" without a murmur; it sold for top dollar in their last auction sale. I originally bought the group of awards from which it came from Tom Johnson who acquired it and the group of awards (to a Luft. Major) in which it was found from Cologne, Germany. The piece is absolutely right, but as usual because it does not fit with your narrow viewpoint (i.e. neither of you presently have one in your collection), then somehow it's "wrong". Perhaps you should mention your disdain for the piece to Col. Johnson if you see him at MAX?

T.

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