Hello guys. A newbie here with some newbie questions. I have recently inherited a supposedly authentic PLM that has tentatively been identified by Andreas at Medalnet as a bronze gilt Godet made PlM, very likely from 1930 to 1945. Andreas answer generated still more questions, which is how I found your forum.
First off, here is the link to the pictures:
http://s287.photobucket.com/albums/l...%20Max%20Pics/
Below is the email I originally send to Andreas, and I've added a few more questions to what I've asked him:
My name is Paul Oats in Pflugerville, Texas, and I have been interested in military history and militaria since I was a child. I have dabbled in medal collecting, mostly focusing on the Eastern Front of WW2 and have a complete set of Soviet defense and liberation medals. I know that 3 I have are fakes, but fortunately I paid fake prices for them (Belgrade, Order of Lenin, and Hero of the Soviet Union). I also have an authentic Order of Lenin, and it is quite easy to tell the difference between the real and fake.
But back to my original purpose in writing. I recently inherited a Pour Le Merite from my cousin, who remembered how fascinated I was with it when I was a child. He had originally acquired it from a Sotheby's auction just after the Blue Max movie came out in the mid 1960s. Unfortunately it did not come with the Urkunde, and the Sotheby's receipt is lost, but it is supposedly authentic, and not one of the repros that seem so common. I believe my cousin paid about US$1000 at the time.
Attached are some scans of the medal. The 3rd picture is an edge scan, since I've learned from your site and pourlemerite.org that is the first place to look for fakery or makers marks. I have examined all the edges with a jewelers loop and can find no markings of any kind. Unfortunately the pourlemerite.org website is down at the moment, but I seem to recall it said that there was one maker (Roth?) that did not use a makers mark.
So, my questions for you are:
1. Do you believe from the pictures that this might be an original?
2. If so, what is the time period this might have been made? Pourlemerite.org did not list when the various makers marks were used. From the Typology section of your site, I believe this may be pre-WW1, possibly even pre-Franco Prussian War.
A: Andreas at Medalnet says it's a bronze gilt Godet made PlM, very likely from 1930 to 1945
3. Would US$1000 have been the approximate value in the mid 1960s?
4. What can I do further to establish it's authenticity? (I've seen Detlev Niemann as "the" authority. Anyone know how to contact him?)
5. Why where more medals made AFTER the awards' discontinuance at the end of WW1? Replacements for lost medals?
6. If genuine, what would the value be today lacking the Urkunde?
BTW, I also have one of the cheap Blue Max reproductions, and the difference in quality is obvious (as it is with my Orders of Lenin).
PS - My cousin's wife used to wear this as jewelry on the gold chain seen in the pictures. One day an elderly German lady stopped her and said it was disrespectful for her to be wearing it, saying it would be like if she were to wear the US Medal of Honor. She never wore it again after that!
========================================
So, that's the story behind my PLM. Thanks in advance for any more info you can provide.
First off, here is the link to the pictures:
http://s287.photobucket.com/albums/l...%20Max%20Pics/
Below is the email I originally send to Andreas, and I've added a few more questions to what I've asked him:
My name is Paul Oats in Pflugerville, Texas, and I have been interested in military history and militaria since I was a child. I have dabbled in medal collecting, mostly focusing on the Eastern Front of WW2 and have a complete set of Soviet defense and liberation medals. I know that 3 I have are fakes, but fortunately I paid fake prices for them (Belgrade, Order of Lenin, and Hero of the Soviet Union). I also have an authentic Order of Lenin, and it is quite easy to tell the difference between the real and fake.
But back to my original purpose in writing. I recently inherited a Pour Le Merite from my cousin, who remembered how fascinated I was with it when I was a child. He had originally acquired it from a Sotheby's auction just after the Blue Max movie came out in the mid 1960s. Unfortunately it did not come with the Urkunde, and the Sotheby's receipt is lost, but it is supposedly authentic, and not one of the repros that seem so common. I believe my cousin paid about US$1000 at the time.
Attached are some scans of the medal. The 3rd picture is an edge scan, since I've learned from your site and pourlemerite.org that is the first place to look for fakery or makers marks. I have examined all the edges with a jewelers loop and can find no markings of any kind. Unfortunately the pourlemerite.org website is down at the moment, but I seem to recall it said that there was one maker (Roth?) that did not use a makers mark.
So, my questions for you are:
1. Do you believe from the pictures that this might be an original?
2. If so, what is the time period this might have been made? Pourlemerite.org did not list when the various makers marks were used. From the Typology section of your site, I believe this may be pre-WW1, possibly even pre-Franco Prussian War.
A: Andreas at Medalnet says it's a bronze gilt Godet made PlM, very likely from 1930 to 1945
3. Would US$1000 have been the approximate value in the mid 1960s?
4. What can I do further to establish it's authenticity? (I've seen Detlev Niemann as "the" authority. Anyone know how to contact him?)
5. Why where more medals made AFTER the awards' discontinuance at the end of WW1? Replacements for lost medals?
6. If genuine, what would the value be today lacking the Urkunde?
BTW, I also have one of the cheap Blue Max reproductions, and the difference in quality is obvious (as it is with my Orders of Lenin).
PS - My cousin's wife used to wear this as jewelry on the gold chain seen in the pictures. One day an elderly German lady stopped her and said it was disrespectful for her to be wearing it, saying it would be like if she were to wear the US Medal of Honor. She never wore it again after that!
========================================
So, that's the story behind my PLM. Thanks in advance for any more info you can provide.
Somebody doesn't like fake sellers. got a little giggle before my first cup of coffee
Comment