Militarverdienstkreuz and ...

[John5813]

Dave,

According to the book " Vituti Pro Patria" which concerns MMJO awards of WWI, 20 of the Grand Crosses went to non-Bavarians ( 11 of them Royal), and there were 6 non-Bavarian recipients of the Knight's Cross. My number for the Grand Crosses is the same, but I only know of 16 recipients of the Commander class. Unfortunately I don't have a copy of the book, only a photocopy of Grand Crosses and Commanders compliments of the Bavarian Army Museum in Ingolstadt. Maybe someone else has more info.

John

[W McSwiggan]

Back to Original Question - Sort of...

This thread really has been fun – thanks for rousing my curiosity with it.

Unfortunately, my single best source for related information is O’Connor who, as stated was focused on aviation personnel. While not necessarily representative of the treatment of all presonnel – I spent some quality time with volume II last night to see what some quick statistics on those aviators who won either the Member’s Cross of the Royal Hohenzollern House Order or the golden Military Merit Cross might show.

Here is what I found:

RHHO – 10 out of a total of 16 recipients were aviators. 3/10 were later promoted to officer status. 2/10 had careers terminated in POW camps. 3/10 paid the ultimate price as KIA. Only 2/10 lived to 11/11/18 on active status as Enlisted Men.

GMVK – 69 of 1770 were aviators. 15/69 were promoted to officer. 11/69 perished leaving 43 to complete the war as Enlisted Men.

In addition to the awards Dave mentioned for Lt. Thom, I found that Lt. Konnecke also held 5 Prussian awards (PlM, Knight’s RHHO, gMVK, EKI, EKII). Lt. Windisch also held 5 (Crown Order 4X – a unique award in WWI made even more so as it was awarded to him as an Enlisted Man – PlM, Knight’s RHHO, EKI & EKII). Windisch also received the Honor Cross with Swords from Waldeck as an Enlisted Man. This cross was awarded only 153 times in the war and only twice to aviators. Due to the early point in the war – you might consider Windisch as an example of an enlisted awardee of top awards from two sovereigns (Prussia’s KO & Waldeck’s Honor Cross).

VFW Ophaus was also awarded both the Member’s RHHO & gMVK.

Offizier Stellvertreter Esswein held the gMVK and the Wurttenburg Golden Military Merit Medal as did Vizefeldwebel Ehmann.

Offizier Stellvertreter Haug held the other Waldeck Honor Cross as well as the gMVK.

Clearly the Germans as most if not all armies favored their officers more generously with awards. What deserves mention is that with very few exceptions – the awards for the various sovereigns in the empire were cumulative for continued merit or bravery. As such, men who were successful tended to be promoted along with their successes and recognition or were – bluntly put – killed. This may take some of the edge off the apparent favoritism towards officers. Many of these successful Enlisted Men went on to enjoy continued success and recognition after promotion to Leutnant such as the outstanding career of Lt. Windisch illustrates.

While not directly answering the original question – I hope the above is of some help to you rather than simply adding to your frustration… thanks for “listening”.

wem

[Daniel Krause]

Interesting thread!

Claudio,

You created bars are amazing! BUT try to put a silver crown on the HOH4X. (see below)

This guy hels also the EK´s, HOH4X and MVK, until now I could not ID him.

Best regards

Daniel

[Daniel Krause]

Hi,

In 1900 I found a Garnisonsverwaltungsoberinspektor SEICHTER, who had

Kronenorden 4.Klasse
Militärverdienstkreuz,
Militärehrenzeichen 1.Klasse,
Militärehrenzeichen 2.Klasse,
Dienstauszeichnung 2.Klasse,
Allgemeines Ehrenzeichen,
Austrian silver bravery medal

which is the 1st case I found with that trio.

Best regards

Daniel

[JensF.]

WOW! What a unique combination!

[McCulloh]

a most interesting subject indeed...

This new forum takes some getting used to huh?
Looking through the Ehrenbuch der inhaber der Sachr. Gold. Militar. St. Heinrich's Medaille" (1937) I find that a number of the Offzr-Strvtr./ Lt-Fldwrbl. types who ended up as Lt. aDs got other states' awards-usually only one at most (not including Austrian awards), but found only ONE lower NCO with a foreign state award: Walter Heinert, Unteroffizier IR 134, 1 Komp. (Kreigsvolunter, 1914): EK2/EK1/ Hohenzollern Siegmaringensche Verdeinst medaille mit X/ Silb. St. Heinrich's Medaille/ HKX (Note no FAM in bronze noted although I'd bet he was awarded one).
Also, in the notation for Dr. Fritz Peterson (Feldarzt,RIR 241) I find he was awrded the "grosskreuz von Kriegs-Ehrenkreuz 1 kl. von D.K.B.".
What is that? The "Deutsche Kreiger Bund"?

I did find only ONE double "foreign state" award in the entire book: To one Mar Pucklitsch, Vitzfeldwrbl, Offzr-Stelvtr. Mine Komp. 324
who received the EK2/EK1/FAM in Silber/Silber St. Heinrich's medialle/Gold St. Heinrich's Medialle/Reuss Kreigsverdeinst kreuz 1, Reuss Kreigzverdeinst Medialle in Silber mit X/ HKX.

Having said that I have a couple of snaps of Matrozen with EK2/FAM (Br?)/ Hansa (Hamburg) Kreuz medal bars @1917/18-so the Hansa crosses are less alarming than other awards.
Cheers,
JeMc

[John5813]

All,

Thank you for the examples individuals who, although not fitting in to my original question, still were highly decorated as enlisted men. I am curious about Windisch though. I known that he received the PlM, KO4X, HHO KnightX, and EK I and II. Plus there was the award from Waldeck. I have also read that he received both St. Heinrich medals, Order of Albert Knight1X, and Austria's Silver Bravery Medal 2nd class. Can anyone confirm this? This would come close to my question. High homestate and other state awards.

John

[W McSwiggan]

I can’t get to primary sources but if you ascribe credibility to O’Connor – here’s his decoration list per Appendix IX, Volume II (Prussia) of his series “Aviation Awards of Imperial Germany”:

Leutnant Rudolf Windisch

Known Awards

 Orden Pour le Merite – Prussia
 Albert Order, Knight 1st Class with Swords – Saxony
 St. Henry Medal in Silver – Saxony
 Royal Hohenzollern House Order – Knight’s Cross with Swords – Prussia
 Iron Cross, 1st & 2nd Class – Prussia
 Honor Cross with Swords – Waldeck
 Bravery Medal in Silver, 2nd Class – Austro-Hungarian Empire
 Pilot’s Badge, Army - Germany

[W McSwiggan]

Ps

In volume 7, pages 389-393, O’Connor corrects an apparent error made in volumes 2 & 3 (Prussia & Saxony) regarding Windisch’s Albert Order.

Here he states that subsequent scrutiny of the newly available archives in Dresden indicates that both the author and the famous Dr. Klietmann were in error in crediting Windisch with the award of the Knight’s 1st Class with Swords of the Albert Order.

Per the Roll of the Albert Order, Windisch was decorated with the Knight’s 2nd Class not 1st.

[JensF.]

That might be of interest:

http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?...category=34648

[Daniel Krause]

Ahh, Max Müller!

Here I have another pic with a bit bigger bar.
That Air force stars were always something better decorated than "normal" guys in the trenches.
But here Max Müller has also Awards from 3 states; Bavaria (native), Prussia (at least the EKs are more Reichs-awards although technically Prussian) and Württemberg.

Best regards

Daniel