1870/71 Prussian Medal Bar

[DougO]

At a small militaria show last weekend I found this nice 1870/71 Prussian medal bar with the 25 Years Prussian Long Service Cross, 1871 War medal with the side insription " Cast from captured cannon " and the 3 battle cross bars : SEDAN , ORLEANS ,PARIS ; and the Wilhelm I Cenntenial Medal . Can anyone please tell me , based on the 3 battle crossbars , what unit this soldier belonged too ? Posted by Bernd .

[DougO]

..and close-up of the battle crossbars .

[DougO]

..and the backside .

[Scott C.]

Nice bar!

[McCulloh]

Looking through my book this combination of bars doesn't conform exactly to any specific units. However, it's close enough to the Bavarian A.K. and detatchments to make some sense, especially if it went to a Landwehr or train /ordianance officer.
The bar looks ok, but I can't comment on the bars. There are many well made fakes of these out there and several german dealers love attaching them to otherwise good bars to 'spice" things (like prices) up.

[PaulChep]

The bar, IMO, is questionable. Having a hook for attaching the medals makes it very easy to switch medals. This type of bar is more common to enlisted men and not officers. A 25 year officer cross without at least a red eagle order 4 or crown order 4 is questionable. It could be that if the person was a General that the RAO or CO where around the neck but Generals usually also had some foreign award or awards from other German states.

[McCulloh]

The bar, IMO, is questionable. Having a hook for attaching the medals makes it very easy to switch medals. This type of bar is more common to enlisted men and not officers. A 25 year officer cross without at least a red eagle order 4 or crown order 4 is questionable. It could be that if the person was a General that the RAO or CO where around the neck but Generals usually also had some foreign award or awards from other German states.

Depends-
This style of trapazoidal mounting was common to both officers and men before 1920. There's lots of photos around to prove it too.
Many Prussian Landwehr, dR or other dead-end assignment officers in the 1880/90s got only the LS award and upgraded it in 1913/14.
Check out the Ranklists for the 1910s and look at the more boring and obscure units: many a Major or Hauptman dL. has only a LS award, but they were there in 1870/71.

[DougO]

Thanks for all the comments . I like the bar in the sense that my Great -Grandfather was in the Garde-Pioneers and took part in the 1866 and 1870/71 wars . He had the Koenigsgraetz Cross of 1866 , the EK II of 1870 ,the 1871 War Medal , the Wilhelm I Cenntennial Medal and the St.Privat-Gravelotte , Beaumont, Sedan and Paris crossbars . I just don't see 1870/71 medal bars very often at shows here in the Midwest ! Bernd.

[PaulChep]

Depends-
This style of trapazoidal mounting was common to both officers and men before 1920. There's lots of photos around to prove it too.
Many Prussian Landwehr, dR or other dead-end assignment officers in the 1880/90s got only the LS award and upgraded it in 1913/14.
Check out the Ranklists for the 1910s and look at the more boring and obscure units: many a Major or Hauptman dL. has only a LS award, but they were there in 1870/71.

Yes, I do agree that many Reserve and Landwehr officers could have had only a long service cross with their campaign medals and centennial, but the long service cross on the bar is a regular officers LSC. A reserve or landswehr would have had a LD1 or Landwehr LS clasp.

Hook back bar were much more comman to enlisted men rather then officers. If you want to buy an officers medal bar stay away from hook back bars as you can never tell what had been switched out.

[Ammersee]

Depends-
This style of trapazoidal mounting was common to both officers and men before 1920. There's lots of photos around to prove it too.

I'll have to challenge you on that 1920 date. The trapezoid style was made well past that and into 30's. See the bar below. If I had a dollar for every trapezoid bar with an EK2 and 1934 issued Hindenburg on it I've seen, I could give you half and still have enough to retire on. Oh wait...I'm already retired. Ammersee

[McCulloh]

oh I am

..disputing that-note what I actually wrote.

The furled style is rarer before the Weimar era. It's not unknown, but the vast majority of photos i see pre-1918 have trapazoidal bars in them (@70%?).

In 1919/1920 the returning vets had their medals mounted for a variety of purposes. Certainly there was an explosion of portraits ("look I survived the war!) and many wore newly made bars.

By the Third Reich though, the trapazoid style had become less common-and indeed rather rare for purely TR bars.

I recently saw a reprint of a photo, which showed a 1943 wedding with the Unterofficer wearing a pure TR trapazoidal style bar. Out of the hundreds of bars in wear photos that I possess, I have only two pure TR trapazoid bar pictures. There are lots of mixed (old imperial soldiers wearing their veterans'/SA parade bars upon recall in 1939 etc.) trapazoidal bars, but after 1933 the furled and Bavarian "square" style was much, much more common.


By the way-that classic bar looks rather new.
Have you blacklighted it?

[Brian S]

I believe your bar is fine BUT, I do not believe the XXV is original to this bar.