help with Prussian pilot badge

[Mike Pinkus]

Hello
i am interested in a prussian pilot badge.....
only have pics of the back available for posting currently....
interested in members opinions
this is a Junker marked piece....
the only pics i have access to show a "rayed" back...Detlev's book
is this a legit variation?
all opinions appreciated
thanks
mike
<img src=http://members.aol.com:/budmike/ebay/ba1.jpg>

<img src=http://members.aol.com:/budmike/ebay/ba2.jpg>

[stogieman]

Pilot's Badge

Hi Mike, Juncker definately made badges like this with a smooth back. I need to see the front, but there are two things already about this piece that tell me it is a strong candidate for being real. Can anybody guess these two, simple traits, evident here, that are characteristic of a good, period (pre-1919) Prussian Pilot's Badge?

[Mike Pinkus]

Hey thanks for the reply there Stogie!...heres a pic of the front
mike
since i am ignorant on these, go ahead and tell me the 2 salient points on the back
thanks
mike
<img src=http://members.aol.com:/budmike/ebay/ba3.jpg>

[stogieman]

better pix??

Hi Mike, any chance of getting clearer pictures on this badge?? Thanks, Rick

[Mike Kenny]

Hi Mike3 & Rick,

I am no expert on these badges but I like this one as well. The hinge/pin/catch all look like early Juncker. The absence of the crown in the maker's markings is a huge PLUS in my books. The large depression where the hinge sits, which extends well down into the oval area, is also something I look for. I like the slight bend/twist to the main pin on this badge - it makes me think this one was attached directly through the uniform rather than through award loops. If the price was right, I'd certainly consider it!

Regards
Mike K

[stogieman]

Goode eye!

Exactly! I was stalling to see if anyone picked up on these points. The pin catch, especially the way it mounts over the pin, is a strong indicator for a period, Juncker Badge. The LACK of crown mark as well. Here are scans of an original, period Juncker rayback, unmarked. But definately a Juncker (it came cased!). Mike, this badge should match almost perfectly the front of yours, note the crisp, precise detail and check yours for it. I have purchased an original Juncker Observer badge for educational purposes. I want the same big scans, front and back to share with you guys.
<img src=http://www.imperialorders.com/ebaypix/pbscan1.jpg>
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<img src=http://www.imperialorders.com/ebaypix/pbscan2.jpg>

[Mike Pinkus]

Rick, very nice pics of your badge, i will try and do at least as well!!!Thanks for the input guys really appreciate it.....I went ahead and sent off for this piece yesterday based on Rick's input.
This is my first foray into a "pricey" WW1 badge.
thanks for all the help......As soon as i get it i will post scans on this thread....
i think i am getting it for a pretty good price, but go ahead and give me the low down on what something like this is going for these days.
mike

[stogieman]

depends.....

...on whose got it, what kind of warranty, etc. I hope this fellow is someone you know and trust and that he's someone who'll accept a return on the piece if it's not okay. If you have an inspection period once it arrives, try to get big, clear photos, or better yet, high density scans, posted here as soon as you have it. Good Luck!
(anywhere from $500-750+)

[Mike Pinkus]

Hello guys...the badge has arrived and here are pics...comments appreciated...shows some wear on the high points and is heavily tarnished...
mike

<img src=http://members.aol.com:/budmike/ebay/ww1pilot1.jpg>
<img src=http://members.aol.com:/budmike/ebay/ww1pilot2.jpg>
<img src=http://members.aol.com:/budmike/ebay/ww1pilot3.jpg>
<img src=http://members.aol.com:/budmike/ebay/ww1pilot4.jpg>
<img src=http://members.aol.com:/budmike/ebay/ww1pilot5.jpg>
<img src=http://members.aol.com:/budmike/ebay/ww1pilot6.jpg>

[stogieman]

I Like it

Hi Mike, I like what I see. There appear to be some lack of definition to a few points on the front, but HD scans would probably show them there, just worn. I think you snagged yourself a good one here, congratulations!

[Erich B.]

Observer Badge

I've got a question--I collect mainly SA material, but purchased a WWI Prussian Observer Badge a while back (I collected WWI back in the 70s and always appreciated it). The badge is rayed back, hollow, good enamel, but the mark is only the moon and '800'--no maker mark. The pin is like the one pictured with the Juncker Pilot's badge. Was it common for the badge makers to mark some badges and not others?
Another question--I noted in the pilot's badge discussion that the lack of a crown on a Juncker marked piece is a good sign--why is that? Did they not use a crown, or did that come later?
Thanks!
Erich

[Ron Birch]

Another thing about these badges, from my understanding you should be leary of the badge if it only had one hole in the back. Is this just some sort of myth or do your badges have two holes (top and bottom) that I missed?

[stogieman]

Well,,,,

I've never heard that one before. I've owned a number of unimpeachable Prussian badges, raybacks & smoothies, and none had a weep hole at all! Also have had an Observer with one and a different one with two. All were real, all were Juncker's

[Ron Birch]

Well Rick I guess I know your view on that now, but what about the crown on a pilots badge? Would that automaticaly make it bad or would that be postwar?

[stogieman]

Touchy Subject!

Hi Ron, this is a touchy subject. I can only tell you that my German Dealers tell me that they have never received an Imperial Pilot/Observer Badge from the recipient or from the recipient's family that has the crown mark. Lots of argument that the crown is legit, but I wouldn't touch one. I lost a lot of money on crown marked badges that I thought were legit. I sent them to Germany for an insurance evaluation and was told point blank, all were fake!