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**Rick Research** · 06-14-2003, 09:18 AM

The Flandernkreuz is on the Kyhäuserbund medal ribbon, otherwise looks like typical 1920s "anything goes."

**Daniel Krause** · 06-14-2003, 02:35 PM

To sort in these unofficial Weimar stuff between the Bavarian medals is quite odd, but not impossible.

The MVK 1 means rank Feldwebelleutnant or the Administration brach fitting rank, he served already before the war to get the Jubilee medal, so I would expect a bit more than just a 9 year long service award.

Best regards

Daniel

**Rick Research** · 06-14-2003, 03:13 PM

Back before 1913 when the NCO long service classes were IX, XV, and XXI, somebody with the standard 12 years enlistment only had the IX at the end of their service. I've seen groups where the owners later decided they were entitled to the new version of XII that didn't exist when they served, but they were only "legally" allowed the IX.

That's why so many old 1870 veteran groups have an IX M1913 medal.

**Daniel Krause** · 06-14-2003, 03:18 PM

He He 1870/71 ... 2 war years, 4 years counted.
But count just from 1911 (jubilee medal) to 1918!
8 years, but 5 counted double!

Best regards

Daniel

**Klaus O.** · 06-14-2003, 05:30 PM

Look what I found... I was just consulting one of my old Hermann Historica's catalogue (24.10.1997) and I found a similar bar but with a MVK2krx and a Militär-DA 1. Kl. für 15 Dienstjahre, Kreuz, 1913-1921.

Enjoy... ciao!

Claudio

**Rick Research** · 06-14-2003, 06:03 PM

The Life Story Claudio's bar tells us is that HIS bar's owner was a former 12 year NCO, left the service BEFORE WW1, and was called BACK up for war duty. Not a continuous active duty NCO or he WOULD have had either an XV or an XXIV. Absence of the 1911 version Luitpold Medal on the civil service ribbon also suggests he took his cash bounty after his time was up rather than applying for a government job, though it's true this fellow might have squeeked out of the army JUST before the M1913 service awards came in.

Except for career Beamten, the "average" Feldwebelleutnant was exactly such a retread, age about 40+. There were very definite rules for former NCOs being promoted to that rank--

including having a "presentable" wife (!) and a "neat and cultured appearance." I guess table manners were more important than being a ferocious muscle bound "elderly" trench raider.

There were also minimum prior military service requirements: 8 years for Offizierstellvertetreter and generally 12 years for Feldwebelleutnant (dR and dL had different minimums). ACTIVE duty NCOs almost never made Feldwebelleutnant, hanging up in Offizierstellvertreter level. There were a few exceptions.

But in most cases, there were only three categories of Feldwebelleutnants--

1) career junior clerical etc military officials-- probably the largest group

2) former NCOs called back dR or dL for "war's duration" service

and

3) doctors who held full medical qualifications but who had no prior military service, classed as warrant officers generally for 2 years before being made wartime Assistenarzts dR or dL

The first group invariably had the higher long service grades, the second generally the lower ones, and the 3rd group had no long services at all.

That's getting off Kriegsverdienst ribbon topic, so I'll put some examples in the Bavarian long service award threads

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Bavarian medal bar with MVK 1. Kl. am Beamtenband

Bavarian medal bar with MVK 1. Kl. am Beamtenband

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