A Study of the Godet Style PlM

[regular122]

The purpose of this thread will be to inform collectors about the basic characteristics of Godet Style Pour le Merites and to create a repository of these types of PlMs for readers to view and study.

The focus will be on 1914-1945 pieces. In addition to the straight Godet wartime and post-war pieces, it will also include ‘Godet-type’ pieces that are recognized as likely being made from Godet dies. These include Meybauer, Hemmerle and Schickle PlMs.

I want to be respectful of pictures that have been sent to me before from many of you and will credit all of you with your pics that I post to the extent that I know them. I will post nothing that I have not been given permission to use if the owner is known. I will correct any pics that do not give proper credit. I also hope collectors on this forum will post their Godet type PlMs here even if they have been posted in older threads. The idea is to gather them here for a single point of study.

My research on the firm of Godet reveals the following. Godet’s firm began under Jean Godet in 1761 and lasted for 5 generations ending with the end of World War II. The generations were as follows:

Jean Godet (1732-1796)
Jean Jaques Godet (1770-1847)
Jean Frédéric Godet (1798-1865)
Jean Pierre Godet (1823-1880)
Eugene Godet (1866-1947)

Its trade name varied over the years from GODET (1761-1860), GODET & SOHN (1860-1886), GEBR. GODET & Co. (1886-1911) or GODET & Co, and for a brief time EUGENE GODET & SOHN (1924-1926), and back to GODET (1926-1945?)

I will begin by covering the basic characteristics of the Godet-style PlMs produced from the 1914-1945 period.

The Pie-Shaped Wedge. The first and most obvious feature is the ‘pie-shaped’ wedge at the top of the cross that held the ribbon suspension ring. Understanding this one feature could save people thousands on fakes when they see a ‘baroque’ ‘Wagner’-style loop on a PlM and then marked JguS or some such. It was not done. Yet you see it all the time on Spanish and Rothe fakes on eBay.

The Crown and F. The Crown is very detailed, unlike Wagner crowns. It has distinct ‘gaps’ as the spars form ‘spades as they move upward from the band. On Silver-gilt (but not some gold) examples, the dies have a very distinct ‘gap’ on the right side of the crown. This right-side gap is found on variants and post-WWI pieces as well. The ‘F’ extends past the right base of the crown as well. The crown is almost always ‘chased’ by the jeweler to enhance it with engraving marks on the details.

Scored Letters. ‘Scored’ or engraved ‘chase’ marks along the details of the letters by a jeweler marks most all Godet pieces. This ‘chasing’ provides very handsome detail unlike all the other PlM styles.

Narrowed Center. Godet crosses have a very thin ‘waist,’ measuring only about 1mm. This makes faking them very difficult, as the dies and enamel work needed to duplicate are not often found. This narrow center is another key thing to look for in a Godet.

Cockaded, Open Beak Eagles. The eagles have a distinctive ‘flat top’ or ‘cockade’ on the heads. Their beaks are open. True PlMs have the eagles facing the center of the cross, no matter where positioned, rather than mounted in clockwise fashion as seen on some fakes. Godet eagles have prominent feet and wedge-shaped legs rather than the rounded ‘drum stick’ shaped legs like on the Wagner style crosses. The tail feathers are formed by five feathers—two sets parallel and a bottom feather.


The items described above are shown below on this beautiful silver-gilt wartime piece courtesy of association member Andreas (www.medalnet.net) who graciously has allowed me to use his pics. A study of these characteristics will allow one to spot a Godet style almost immediately and turn away a fake Godet rather quickly.

I will be posting more pics and I welcome all members to post their Godet pieces here, even if posted in old threads. More to come on the Meybauer PlM and variants. Thanks, Steve

[regular122]

No one is more appropriate to show wearing the Godet style Blue Max than the man that gave it his name - Max Immelmann. He was also one of the only airmen that was awarded the Godet style in gold before the Kaiser's decree of 1916 that stated the medals would be made in Silver-gilt and without the pie wedge for issue. Even so, Godet continued to make them and sell them privately. I wonder where Immlemann's cross is now?

[regular122]

A comparison of Godet style PlMs made by the four recognized makers.

[regular122]

Next up, the Meybauer variant.

From my research, I have found very little about the Meybauer firm. Established in 1874, it began as a supplier to and court jeweler for the King of Sweden. Known as Paul Meybauer, Orden- u. Militäreffekten-Fabrik, its address was Berlin SW 68, Junker Str. The Godet firm was also in this area of Berlin.

Meybauer's firm made EKs and other awards in WWI and was registered under the DRGM system as 'DRGM 653146.' It also used a coat of arms as well for its maker mark at least until 1939. Whether the coat of arms mark was used on PlMs prior to 1919 is not clear but is believed to be, given the Imperial nature of the mark and other awards found with it--especially pilot and U-Boot badges. Under the LDO, its number was L/7. The firm was destroyed in 1945.

The Meybauer PlM is not distinguishable from the Godet PlM until you turn it around. On the back, it has no enamel. While Godet did produce several known examples of one-sided PlMs made for special order, no known Meybauer piece has an enameled back. Instead, the piece is flat and has the coat of arms often found on other WWI era awards such as the EKI and Silesian Eagle or on its wartime U-Boot and Aviator badges.

The cross appears to have been made in some kind of arrangement with Godet. The two known examples to surface among collectors are both bronze-gilt and solid. There are reports of more of these but no one has produced them for study in any forum or book that I am aware of. Collectors have speculated that the cross was used for funeral pilows as a means to display the deceased knight's awards but I can find nothing to substantiate this. One surviving PlM recipient is known to have worn a Meybauer PlM at his reunions until the 1970s.

Whether it was made during WWI, or more likely from the 1920s thru 1945, the Meybauer PlM is one of the most scarce examples of the order. Here are some comparison pics with a Godet piece again courtesy of Andreas and a Meybauer from my own collection.

[regular122]

The backs. Note that the Meybauer has no detailing to the eagles on the back as well as no enamel. Only the Meybauer maker mark is present. But for everyday wear, this would be a less expensive and ideal cross as buttons would often rub the enamel off the back.

[regular122]

What becomes obvious when studying the Meybauer is that it definitely was struck on the Godet dies. Every detail and letter score is identical. The workmanship is beautiful Godet quality. What arrangement there was between the two firms remains a mystery.

[medalnet]

Great job !!! It just shows that the making of things (orders) even those days was a economic decision. It was less expensive to buy from existing manufacturers, than creating new tooling.

[Erickn]

Hi Steve,

Outstanding & very informative thread Smokin crosses! I wonder what the diamentions are between the different crosses?

E.

[regular122]

To reinforce the similarities between the Meybauer and the Godet, below you will find the single-sided Godet PlM belonging to General Major Paul Krause. The pictures are used with permission of Andreas.

It was presented by Krause's officers when he was a colonel and commander of the 158th Infantry Regiment. He was awarded this special presentation piece in April 1918--the same time he was awarded a Wagner-style PlM by the Orders Chancellery. It is engraved on the arm rims with the names of five regimental staff officers.

The piece is silver-gilt and hollow, as seen by the bottom arm weep hole. But the back, even though stamped single sided, has had the eagles and pie-wedge finished out. For more on Krause vist the GMIC here.

An example of one resembling the single-sided Meybauer in nearly every detail is found on pages 334-336 in forum member Stephen Previtera's book 'Prussian Blue.' This award belonged to Major Martin Otto and was worn in 1918. Although Stephen states it is silver-gilt (there are no marks) vice bronze-gilt and it possessed no Meybauer stamp, it is an identical piece in every detail, to include its solid vice hollow construction. These two Godet wartime examples are why I believe it is possible that the Meybauer pieces were also manufactured during the war. The Otto piece might even be a Meybauer.

[epsomgreen]

Hi Steve:

Very interersting, well researched, and thoughtful analysis. Kudos!

Charles

[regular122]

I wonder what the dimensions are between the different crosses?

E.

Erick,

Andreas lists the Godet cross as 52.5mm x 54.5mm. The Meybauer is 52.5 x 54mm. Steve

[bunyip]

What becomes obvious when studying the Meybauer is that it definitely was struck on the Godet dies. Every detail and letter score is identical. The workmanship is beautiful Godet quality. What arrangement there was between the two firms remains a mystery.

Meybauer single sided pieces were not struck from dies. They were cast from molds. All the signs are there. Meybauer copies look like the Godet made pieces but the way they were made is significantly different. Striking a blank and handfinishing it requires far more skill than pouring metal into an mold.

The Hammerle marked piece was sold by Hermann Historica a few years ago. The attribution to Udet is doubtful, and whether Hammerle actually MADE PlMs or not has never been demonstrated. One example carrying the Hammerle mark is not sufficient to proove the firm actually made them. It's possible the firm bought an unmarked piece and applied their own name to it. It's also possible that someone other than Hammerle added the name thinking they could make more money by finding a sucker.

Claiming a type based on ONE known example is very, very risky thing. Adding fake markings to medals isn't something new.

bunyip

[regular122]

Bunyip,

First, welcome to the forum.

I see your interest in PlMs has aroused several comments on this Godet thread and the S&L thread. I was not aware of the Udet claim for the Hemmerle piece illustrated. I only note that it had a Godet style--which it does.

As to the Meybauer molding statement, I would love to have your source for this. Not disputing it, but would rather like to expand the Meybauer knowledge base more. I can tell you though that it certainly does not appear cast and the hand-finishing marks are certainly present and consistent with Godet pieces. There are a few of these that are in collections in GB, NZ and USA, but others not known. Thanks, Steve

[Andy K.]

Hello Steve:

Some month ago I had the opportunity to acquire directly from the family a silver-gilt Godet PLM. This PLM does not have as usual the marks „JGuS 938“ but „• J G u S • 9 3 8 •“ on the pie wedge rim. The soldier has received the PLM in the end of 1917.

Till the beginning of 1930 he is to be seen on all photos with a PLM with the so-called baroque eye. From that time up to the end of the war he is wearing only the Godet PLM with the pie wedge rim. That is the reason and because up to now only Godet PLM with the marks “JGuS 938” in my collection, I had assumed on the fact that the Godet PLM acquired by me from the 30s years is. But now I am not sure to me anymore.

Because I am a new member in the forum, unfortunately, I can still send no photos from my Godet PLM.

I am very interesting in your opinion regarding the Godet PLM with the marks „• J G u S • 9 3 8 •“

Andy

[regular122]

Andy,

Welcome to the forum. If you forward me the pics via email, I can post them for you. I sent my email address to you via PM on this forum. Would love to see pics and discuss it. Steve