Which Came First...?

[John F.]

Hello:

I was under the impression that the EK2 took precedence over other awards on a medal bar. However, from the pic shown below this is not the case. I am guessing that this was some sort of tribal thing with this guy being from Bavaria and that is why those medals are before the Prussian EK2. I came to this conclusion because I then saw another pic on Helmut Weitze with the EK2 worn before the MVK, granted that the MVK shown is a lower class then the others. I know my questions are elementary but I am attempting to broaden my horizons by venturing away from the WWII stuff (too many landmines) and start dabbling in the Imperial arena, so please be patient while I step over into a new mind field.

Thanks!

John

[stogieman]

Right, but it depends....

Prior to 1918, all German kingdoms, duchies and principalities were required to ascede precedence to Prussian awards, EXCEPT Bavaria and saxony. These two kingdoms wore their own awards prior to Prussian awards, including the EK2. (note that a Prussian combat award, like the EK2, would still take precedence over any peace-time award by the home kingdom).

After 1934/35, regulations were rewritten with a specific order precedence issued. At this time, the Iron Cross assumed precedence over any and all other awards.

So, in reality, both of the Bavarian bars shown are correct, for their specific era!

[stogieman]

I know it's confusing....

The bars are both correct because the first one probably pre-dates the regulation change, which upon reflection may have been closer to 1937/38. The Honor Crosses were issued 1934/35 I think....

[John F.]

Great answer, thanks!

John

[Rick Research]

Go look at The Ribbon Bar Article and check the regulations etc sections. Lots of stuff dealing with precedence changes over time in the chapters.

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/ribbons/index.htm

There are also some semi-organized threads in the back pages of this Forum under "Bavarian Rules," "Saxon Rules," and "Mecklenburg Rules."


Imperial is lots harder than Third Reich!

[W McSwiggan]

Little Help Here Please

I seem to recall but can't prove it - so what's new - that Wurttemberg was on again/off again in terms of placing their orders and decorations ahead of Prussia's as well. I refer to Imperial times - not III. Reich.

Did I get it right?

Was there a date at which one behavior replaced the other and if so which way was before & which way was after?

[Daniel Krause]

before 1918 were SOME different regulations for different German states which even changed over the times.
Normally Bavarians, Saxons and Württembergians (as Kingdoms with semi-independent armed forces) had to wear their war decorations before the EK. Oddly the Württembergians started beginning WW1 to wear the EK first.
To post all the different regulations would be too much for a simgle thread.

Weimar time had NO regulations.

1935 came the first ALL-German regulations, but even then some people decided to wear their awards how THEY wanted.

Best regards

Daniel

[W McSwiggan]

Good to Know!

Thank you Daniel!

Rick L always says the Wurttembergers are beyond comprehension and I begin to appreciate why!



wem

[McCulloh]

What I find interesting is the Officer' MVK and the lower NCO's MVK3 on the same bar-with the LS award and wedding medal. Looks as if he got promoted mid-war and then got his LS medal-perhaps an indication that Bavaria issued its LS medals in 14-18?. An "Ultra Bavarian" bar :1923-1934.

[Daniel Krause]

Yeah, really a nice Bavarian combo. I think he was career NCO before he bumped up to Lt in the war.
Unlike other German states Bavaria continued to award the long service decorations also wartime and even to volunteers and draftees.

Best regards

Daniel