1813 EK 2 on e-Stand

[George Stimson]

Am I not correct that this type 1813 has now been determined to be not good? http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=207627

[George Stimson]

See http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...ight=1813+club

[gregM]

The cross on e-stand appears to be a match to the one that George
has supplied a link to. George probably more than anyone knows that
this style of cross is believed to be a fake. This is not one that I would
care to have in my collection.

There is also a 1870 prinzen offered by the same person
on e-stand right now that should be discussed as well.
Here is a link to the 1870 prinzen.
http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=207625

[gregM]

This style of prinzen 1870 EK2 has been discussed many times on the
forum as they seem to pop up on ebay rather frequently.

Here is a link to one of those discussions.
http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=207625

Here is another
http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...t=prinzen+1870

[Marc Garlasco]

Agreed.

[km-spain]

The 1813 EKII comes with the expertise from Jörg Nimemergut from 2004, but I supouse that all you know more than him only for some pictures .

[George Stimson]

I returned my 1813 to Detlev and got a full refund. (If anyone wants his current opinion on these EKs, they should simply e-mail him.)

[FW 200]

1813 cross

I have a question about these. In Iron Time I read this version were all hand made by individual jewelers. Wouldn't that mean, that there would be no two alike, at least as far as finding examples to compare one with? I have had several chances over the years to get one, but have only had the dealers' story as provenance. What is the best way to make sure of these pieces being good? Thanks a million. Charles

[FW 200]

BTW, the last one I saw for sale had shinier paint than Georges, and was priced at $900.00. I would think a good one would be much more, but I'm not sure.

[gregM]

BTW, the last one I saw for sale had shinier paint than Georges,

I have only seen 3 painted core 1813s posted by members. Of those,
2 have turned out to be fakes and I have my doubts about the 3rd.

[FW 200]

I wonder then, should the cores be blackned and not painted at all?

[km-spain]

An this is a serious discussion about this rare medal. I have no seen any reason about why this is not good, but I have an expertise on one of the best experts and valuers of antiques medals for the german action houses that says that this is good, and he has checked it in person, weighed it, measured it, ..., before decide.

This is the problem of this forum, there are a lot of "experts" that give all their opinion about something without any prube, only with his "feeling" looking some pictures.

[Biro]

...I have an expertise on one of the best experts and valuers of antiques medals for the german action houses that says that this is good....

That'll be the same J******246;rg Nimemergut who issued expertise for the fake Rounder Knights Cross including one calling it a '2nd type S&L'.... .

...This is the problem of this forum, there are a lot of "experts" that give all their opinion about something without any pribe, only is the "feeling".....

Total nonsense.

Nimmergut was not alive in 1813 and to the best of my knowledge neither was he awarded the 1813 EK2, therefore his "expert opinion" is based solely on a "feeling"... and yet with that, you seem entirely comfortable?

Here's something a little more forensic for you.

Below is the obverse and reverse of three prinzen crosses. They claim to be from the 1813, 1870 and 1914 era's - yet they share identical reverse cores and identical frames including a piece of untrimmed excess metal which is high-lighted. They were manufactured as a batch. They are not - can not be - of the periods their obverse proclaims.

I am not an expert, this is my opinion but it is based on substantially more than a "feeling".

I would suggest you now compare them to the prinzen piece you are offering on e-stand.

[km-spain]

Dear Biro, this is for the EK1813, and I think that is not the same.

Mr. Nimmergut is not god, but be sure that the information he has had and the pieces that he has seen in his live is much more than you or me are going to see together in our lives. He has checked this piece in all the details, but I'm sure that you and other advance collectors with the pictures know much more than he.

About the EK 1870, you really think that the dies used for the frames are different in 1870 than in 1914, I really don't think so, but is only my opinion. The EK 1870 comes from H.Weitze and not from ebay.

[George Stimson]

"He has checked this piece in all the details, but I'm sure that you and other advance collectors with the pictures know much more than he. "

Don't forget that Detlev also now views these 1813s as being fakes.