Cased EK1 WS screwback

[Biro]

The cross itself looks reasonably nice, but has anyone ever seen a core attributed to 'WS' (and there is more than one, I know...) that matches this one?

Maybe Mike can help with ID'ing this particular core, because for me it's a first...

Also, has anyone ever seen a 'WS' maker mark quite like this one.... (the spacing is huge)?

The case I can't comment on... the glue and under the insert in general is nice, but sadly, these things are easily and frequently 'modified'.

Alan - what exactly is on the lid? I see a 'W' and maybe a 'crown'...

Marshall

[Mike Kenny]

Hmmm.

Marshall, some great questions.

For me, the case (and internal fitting) looks authentic. There appears to be traces of the purple flocking stuck in the yellow (I would hope horse-hair) glue, which is hopefully a good sign. I agree on your easily modified point though. The fit of the cross looks superb though, and if fake that rusty outline of the cross on the white upper insert is a master stroke!

Excellent question on the core. I had looked at the crown and thought it similar to one of the 3 different WS crowns/cores I am aware of. I've gone through my examples now in detail and I can confirm that the core of this example is NOT the same as the 3 WS cores I have on hand. Further, the 4 in the date is a first for me (the large gap between the two "vertical" strokes is very distinctive - and unusual) - I do not have this style 4 on any EK1 in my collection. Does anybody have this "4" on an EK2? If the 4 was a bit more normal the core could almost pass for a "CD 800".

Re the maker mark, no, I have not seen one with spacing this far apart - all others I have seen have been a tightly spaced "WS", which I've believed to be from a single stamp, not separate stamps for each individual letter. The large space is also unusual I guess when I sit back and think about it, altohugh the font looks acceptable and the weak strike in places would not be unusual for WS.

I've just had a terrible thought though - could this be one of those nasty EK2 to EK1 conversions that have been popping up recently?

Alan, some questions. Is the cross flat or aulted? How does the finish on the edges of the cross look, especially the inner curved of the arms? Any indications the frames have been apart or do not align properly? There does seem to be some solder on the reverse lower arm (right hand side)?

Alan, can I ask how you came by this example? It's certainly your right not to answer that one, but please rule out eBay in the last few years. I realise I was very positive before but I guess now I have some concerns.

Regards
Mike

[Brian S]

Case looks very convincing. Is that rust residue on the silk lining of the cover? I don't see corresponding rust on the crown and W of the cross itself to see the transfer from cross to case? Did a different cross leave the residue?

Be curious to see a side view of the cross and how well it's put together.

Could the case insert be a post-production from a normally produced case?

The WS mark is a one of kind for me.

[gregM]

I am fairly certain that that core is a KAG core. (1)The crown has the very typical KAG style to it . (2) the "W" is very thin. (3) the "9" has an
extreme amount of curl to it and (4) the "4" has a very short leg. All
of these charactoristics are present in my maker marked KAG pinback.

[gregM]

Here is my KAG to compare to.

[Tiger 1]

I don't know about the case. The case looks to be period but I'm not sure it was originally for an EK.

Whatever was originally printed on the cover was scrapped off. There doesn't seem to be any other heavy wear marks on the edges to match the wear to this printing. The bed where the screwdisc sits, the circle in the card board looks pretty roughly cut on the underside as if it was done free hand instead of die stamped or diecut. Makes me really wonder if the case was for something else and modified to take this EKI.

The rust spots on the inside lid do not seem to match the lack of rust on the same areas of the EK's core. Logically, signs of rust would also be on the core.

The markings on the back of the EK are not what one usualy expects any known WS marks to look like.

I'd be cautious about this being what it purports to be. A possible senario would be that it was made up by the original owner to store his EK but without actual knowledge that it was so leaves a lot to wonder about for me.

JMO.

Tony

[gregM]

The markings on the back of the EK are not what one usualy expects any known WS marks to look like.

Tony

I agree completely. Not like any WS I have seen before. As far as the
case. I do not have enough experience to say one way or the other.

[ekhunter]

I am fairly certain that that core is a KAG core. (1)The crown has the very typical KAG style to it . (2) the "W" is very thin. (3) the "9" has an
extreme amount of curl to it and (4) the "4" has a very short leg. All
of these charactoristics are present in my maker marked KAG pinback.

I believe Greg is right about the core. This definately is a K.A.G. core, and I've never seen the W and the S marked that far apart. Quite an interesting cross there.

[Mike Kenny]

Again, I state that the 4 IS NOT a match - with KAG or any other maker I currently have access to.

Here's a comparison, between Alan's "WS", Greg's KAG and an "800 V" in my collection. Note what happens if you extrapolate the 2 "vertical" strokes on the 4s. The 800 V is a much better match for the 4 (although the height of the true vertical stroke differs with the "WS" example), but not the 9. Close enough still means different die - or a reworked die.

Regards
Mike

[Mike Kenny]

And the 800 V that close-up came from. Note that I have always felt KAG and 800 V to be very close in obverse and reverse features, but not quite the same. Possibly the same maker with different dies, possibly separate makers but with some sort of association.

Regards
Mike

[Alan]

WS Screwback

First of all I would like to thank you all for taking the time to post your comments and thoughts. You folks have saved me alot of embarrassment on the E-stand. The more I look at the questions posed and relate them back to this cross the more I don't like it.


I agree with you Marshall it is certainly a W and possibly a crown

The cross is flat Mike and on much closer inspection the finish looks terrible

I've sent some more pics of to Mike, Brian, hopefully these side views may help

[Mike Kenny]

...I've sent some more pics of to Mike...

And here they are. Pic11

[Mike Kenny]

Pic12

[Mike Kenny]

Pic13

[Mike Kenny]

Pic14