Prussian Pilots Badge

[Sonderkommando]

Anybody care to comment on Detlev's Pilots badge (item #6011) that just sold on his recent update for $729 U.S.? Supposedly a "typical" Junckers yet the obverse details are nothing like a Junckers and the back is totally wrong for a Junckers badge of that period!!! Whats going on here? Has he accidently put in a fake or are we to believe now that this badge is "typical" of Junckers work? I think not!

Brett

[Dez H]

Hi Brett

Did you happen to save the images?

If you did, or anyone else for that matter would you mind posting them? Thanks

[Sonderkommando]

Hi Dez,
I didn't save pics of the badge but if anybody could post pics of the item in question, I would be very interested to hear some comments about this "typical" Junckers Pilots badge.

Cheers,
Brett

[Dez H]

Here's the pic.

[Dez H]

anyone have anything to say?

I'm not sure on this one, dosen't look like the marked or unmarked Junckers I have seen in the past.

[Erich B.]

badge

My first thought was that it was different looking than my Juncker flat backed badge, but the more I compare, the less sure I am--the quality of the image and angle of the shots make it difficult to tell for sure.
I'd like to hear from someone more knowledgeable than myself on these badges.
Erich

[Sonderkommando]

I just thought I would help this thread along a bit by mentioning the fact that the leaves on the left side of the wreath are totally different, the muffler behind the propeller is missing, there is a "berry" on the left wreath next to the mountains, the plane is missing detail to the wing on the right side, the line accross the rear fuselage is in the wrong spot, the recess for the hinge on the back is to shallow, the ribbon bow is a totally different shape, the tip of the propeller doesn't meet the wreath, etc, etc etc.
This is not a Junckers badge and doesn't meet the characteristics of the marked and un-marked ones I have.
Maybe Detlev mis-worded his description, but I will say that the shallow recess for the hinge is a bad sign for an original. All of the crown marked badges have this shallow recess, and the general thought on these is suspect at the least.
I should add that I have a large collection of Sanke cards and after going through them all, none of the pilots have badges with the "berry" in the wreath next to the mountain, the only badges I have seen this feature on is the crown marked badges.

Regards,
Brett

[Erich B.]

bagde

Doh! You're right--I didn't scrutinize my badges closely enough--none of mine has the berry at the mountain level, the buildings are slightly different, some of the leaves are different, etc.
Erich

[stogieman]

Well, stogieman weighs in

Hi Guys, while I don't care for the detail that seems to be lacking, and the lack of depth to the rear pin recess, both of these points could be explained by lousy photos.
I think you guys should go back and check your badges as I just poured through every photo I have of real badges and every one, including ones that were mine and now owned by some of you, have a berry at the wing tip!
So, I can explain and reconcile some of the issues with this badge, but would have much preferred to be holding it in hand.
If you look at the photo of the second Prussian Pilot Badge Detlev had for sale last Friday, it's definately a real one and consistent with all my records/photos AND it has the berry at the wing tip.
Check your badges again for the berry at the tip of the left wing.

[Sonderkommando]

Hi Rick,
The "offending" berry is the one where the mountains meet the wreath on the left side. I have had a look through all my pics and can't find an original badge with this feature.

Cheers,
Brett

(It's okay, we all have our bad days )

[Rich G]

Mine has the berry. I have no idea of maker though as it's hollow and unmarked.

Rich

[stogieman]

OK, I messed up!

whoops, wrong berry! Sorry guys. Mine don't have a berry down that low either. But, the thickness of this badge could make it a different die/period and still by Juncker. The other features I look for on a Junker are here. the pin and catch are consistent, the placement of the buildings, etc. I think it's still a possible and would reserve judgement until I had it in hand. The angle of the photo/flash, would account for quite a bit of loss of detail.

[Sonderkommando]

Hi Rich,
Your Pilots badge doesn't have the berry. The one in question is the one where the top of the mountain meets the wreath on the left hand side.
In answer to your reply Rick, it could be flash or the angle of the badge but the pattern of the leaves to the left of the bow can't be explained by this as they are totally different.

Cheers,
Brett