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**gregM** · 01-01-2007, 01:18 AM

Hi Steve,
Nice looking medal.

Is the ribbon original to the cross ? It looks brand new.
Super condition !!

**regular122** · 01-01-2007, 05:56 PM

Thanks Greg. I had to find a replacement ribbon but one of very high quality. I saw what appeared to be a mint ribbon with another offering last month that came from a cased set. Since the guy had the cased one, he let the other go. It appeared to be a good cross as well. Went for about what an EK1 sells for. Don't often see them. I am hoping more can be posted here for reference. Steve

**Wild Card** · 01-01-2007, 10:42 PM

A beautiful piece Steve and, as you noted, surprisingly rare. I can especially appreciate your comments with regard to the ribbon. Thirty years ago I bought a cased piece - but no ribbon. As I recall, it took me over ten years to find a correct piece of ribbon for it - this has to be one of the most difficult ribbons to find.

That piece, the ribbon and case are long since gone; but it’s father still resides in the neighborhood.

Best wishes,

Wild Card

Grandpa -

Attached Files

LippeX.jpg (115.2 KB, 655 views)

**regular122** · 01-02-2007, 02:30 AM

Wow! Wild Card. That is a beautiful 1870 piece. How many of the 1870 pieces were awarded? I should think even less than in WWI. Thanks for posting that. Steve

**Dave Danner** · 01-02-2007, 05:37 PM

Originally posted by regular122 View Post

Here is one not often seen. I recently found this fine example of the Schaumberg-Lippe Kreuz für treue Dienste (faithful service cross).

It was roughly equal to the EKII and was only awarded 10,000 times as compared to 2 million for the EKII. It was insituted in 1870 and renewed by Fürst Adolph on November 18th, 1914. It was awarded in one class to both combatants and non-combatants. The pinback version was to royalty but considered the same class and is even rarer.

If others have these to share in singles, on a bar or in the Steckkreuz (pin back) version, please post here for reference.

And to Dave Danner, if you can let us pick your brain on these, the website is great. If you have more comments on them, it is appreciated. Thanks, Steve

This was one of the first of the so-called "Iron Cross equivalents" I got, and the source of the bug to make that my collecting focus. In one lot I got this Cross for Loyal Service, the Sachsen-Altenburg Bravery Medal, the Mecklenburg Strelitz Cross for Distinction in War and the Oldenburg Friedrich August Cross. So it seemed like I was off to a good start.

More comments...? Well, one minor nit. It's Schaumburg, not Schaumberg. A fortress, not a mountain.

On the award numbers: 10,000 compared to 2 million doesn't seem like a lot, but Schaumburg-Lippe was a principality with a population of less than 50,000. So it is reasonable to surmise that a number of these awards went to men who weren't citizens of the principality. Awards went to the units raised there, some units to which Schaumburg princes were affiliated, and some other units with a regional connection to the Lippe principalities. There were also the usual awards to aviators and staff officers.

The following are among the units that had some connection to Schaumburg-Lippe.

The principality's main peacetime contribution to the Imperial German Army was a single light infantry battalion. Westfälisches Jäger-Bataillon Nr.7 was garrisoned at Bückeburg, the capital of the principality, and was known as the Bückeburg Jägers.

In addition, the Bückeburg Jägers were responsible for raising two reserve Jäger battalions - Westfälisches Reserve-Jäger-Bataillon Nr. 7 and Reserve-Jäger-Bataillon Nr. 20. The former was the "regular" reserve formation raised by the active battalion, while the latter was raised in Bückeburg from the replacement battalion (Ersatz-Abteilung) of the Bückeburg Jägers from overstrength Ersatz companies and war volunteers.

These three Jäger battalions had the most direct connection to Schaumburg-Lippe. In addition, a few other units had an indirect connection. Infanterie-Regiment Graf Bülow von Dennewitz (6. Westfälisches) Nr. 55 was a Westphalian regiment raised nearby. One of its battalions was the battalion of Lippe-Detmold, Schaumburg-Lippe's sister state. A number of residents of Schaumburg-Lippe ended up in IR 55. One, Stadthagen native Hans-Kurt Höcker, would later rise to Generalleutnant in the Wehrmacht and command three divisions (258th Infantry, 17th Luftwaffe Field, 167th Volksgrenadier) in World War II.

Mindensches Feldartillerie-Regiment Nr. 58 was a Prussian regiment garrisoned in Minden, on the Weser river about 12 kilometers from Bückeburg. I don't know if there was a formal link, but a number of Schaumburgers show up in the artillery regiment's ranks. Two officers of the regiment held the principality's House Order of the Honor Cross on the 1914 rank list. Bückeburg native Hans Bömers, later a Wehrmacht Generalleutnant, served with FAR 58 in the First World War.

1. Westfälisches Feldartillerie-Regiment Nr. 7, although garrisoned some 200 kilometers from the principality, apparently had enough of a Westphalian connection that the prince had awarded the Honor Cross to four of its officers.

Husaren-Regiment König Wilhelm I (1. Rheinisches) Nr. 7 was a Bonn-based cavalry regiment, even further removed from the principality, except for one thing: à la suite to the regiment were General der Kavallerie Adolf Wilhelm Viktor Prinz zu Schaumburg-Lippe, the reigning prince's uncle, and Major Adolf Fürst zu Schaumburg-Lippe, the reigning prince. After 1890, General Prinz Adolf lived in Bonn in the Palais Schaumburg (after 1974 the residence of the Federal Chancellor).

Adolf Fürst zu Schaumburg-Lippe became regimental commander of Husaren-Regiment Landgraf Friedrich II. von Hessen-Homburg (2. Kurhessisches) Nr. 14 on August 2, 1914. He later commanded the 3. Garde-Kavallerie-Brigade.

5. Westfälisches Infanterie-Regiment Nr. 53, a Rhineland unit raised in Cologne, has as its colonel-in-chief Her Royal Highness Princess Adolf zu Schaumburg-Lippe, the general's wife. She was also the Kaiser's sister (thus the "Royal Highness"). Erwin Engelbrecht, who would receive the Knight's Cross as commander of the 163. Infanterie-Division in 1940, served with IR 53 and as a staff officer with Westphalian higher commands and received the Cross for Loyal Service in 1918.

Infanterie-Regiment Prinz Friedrich der Niederlande (2. Westfälisches) Nr. 15, like FAR 58 was raised in Minden. A few of its prewar officers have the Honor Cross, indicating some Schaumburg-Lippe connection. And looking through the WW2 general's bios, I see among IR 15 recipient of the Cross for Loyal Service: General der Infanterie Kurt Brennecke, General der Panzertruppe Hans Cramer (last commander of the Afrikakorps), Generalleutnant Karl von Beeren, and Luftwaffe Generalmajor Fritz Reinshagen.

The pioneer unit with the closest Schaumburg-Lippe connection was also Minden-based - Hannoversches Pionier-Bataillon Nr. 10. A number of its officers had the Honor Cross prewar and a number of Crosses for Loyal Service show up among its ranks during the war.

The Jäger battalions also were responsible for raising Radfahr-Kompanien, but I don't have my references handy to ID which ones the Bückeburg Jägers raised.

Awards of the Cross for Loyal Service also show up in other Westphalian infantry regiments, as well as to the commanders and staff officers of the divisions and corps to which they belonged. The air service had its share - if you have Neal O'Connor's Volume VII there should be some information which I don't have handy (my copy is at home).

The Imperial Navy, by contrast, is pretty underrepresented, which makes some sense for a landlocked state devoted primarily to mining and agriculture. I may have missed some, but the February 1918 rank lists appear to show a total of 10 naval officers with the Cross for Loyal Service - 1 Admiral, 1 Vizeadmiral, 2 Kapitäne zur See, 1 Korvettenkapitän, 2 Kapitänleutnante, 1 Oberleutnant zur See, 1 Marineoberstabarzt and 1 Marinemaschinenbaumeister (on the ribbon for noncombatants). Even assuming a wave of awards after February, they would have been a small proportion of the 10,000 total awards. Naval enlisted awards were probably few as well - if the ratio of enlisted to officer awards were the same for the navy as overall, there would have been about 36 by February 1918, but since navy enlisted awards were less common than army ones (since NCOs and soldiers of the Bückeburg Jägers and related units were relatively well-recognized), it was probably less.

**regular122** · 01-02-2007, 05:57 PM

Dave,

You continue to be a mine of information. Fantastic rundown on the Schaumburg units and associates. Any idea how many 1870 examples were awarded?

Any crosses or bars or pinbacks you want to post on this thread would be most welcome to reference this award. Thanks for taking the time to educate all of us. As to berg vice burg...

Steve

**Wild Card** · 01-03-2007, 12:45 AM

Originally posted by regular122 View Post

Wow! Wild Card. That is a beautiful 1870 piece. How many of the 1870 pieces were awarded? I should think even less than in WWI. Thanks for posting that. Steve

Thank you regular121,

I have never been able to find out how many of these crosses were awarded. Nimmergut only says that they are very rare. Also, referring to my previous post, I have to admit that the ribbon on this piece is a modern (glows like crazy) replacement.

Thanks again and best wishes,

Wild Card

**regular122** · 01-03-2007, 03:00 AM

Here is a fantastic Schaumburg-Lippe bar with minis, used with permission of the owner. Some scarce and desirable awards there! Steve

Attached Files

SLBarwminis.JPG (63.0 KB, 608 views)

**Don D.** · 01-03-2007, 05:41 AM

Now that is a nice bar!!!

**Dave Danner** · 01-03-2007, 01:58 PM

That is a very nice bar!

The Württemberg connection is one I didn't elaborate on before. Several younger Schaumburg-Lippe princes served in Württemberg regiments during World War I.

But the most significant connection is probably this:

Georg Fürst zu Schaumburg-Lippe, who ruled until 1860, was great-grandfather of the ruling prince in World War I. Georg's oldest son, Adolf I, had succeeded him. Georg's youngest son (other than one that died as an infant) was Wilhelm Karl August Prinz zu Schaumburg-Lippe. Prinz Wilhelm's eldest daughter was Queen Charlotte of Württemberg, the wife of King Wilhelm II, the last King of Württemberg.

**regular122** · 01-05-2007, 12:34 AM

Thanks Dave. I learn something from you almost every time you post! And for those that want to see a typical (but very scarce!) Schaumburg-Lippe fighting man bar made by Godet, go to Dave's site here:

http://home.att.net/~david.danner/mi...schaumburg.htm

Does anyone else other than wild card own one of these crosses loose or on a bar, or a pin back that you could post? Steve

**Don D.** · 01-05-2007, 05:52 AM

This award on a bar still eludes me.

**Dave Danner** · 01-05-2007, 11:30 AM

Missing from the wep page is the matching ribbon bar:

The medal bar:

**Don D.** · 01-05-2007, 11:35 AM

Of course Dave has one, and a sweet one at that. Thanks for sharing.

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