some 1870s for your approval

[Steve Campbell]

How come you never see one on the estand or many dealer sites. Thats not as bad as I thought, but still expensive though. What are the production numbers on these. I want one eventually.

[ottomaton]

The information that I have (which is from a 1974 book and may be out of date) is:

1870 Iron Cross 2nd Class:
43,250 - 47,244

1870 Iron Cross 1st Class
1,230 - 1903

For comparison, there is an incredible range in the 1914 estimates.

1914 Iron Cross 2nd Class:
1,463,000 - 4,500,000

1914 Iron Cross 1st Class:
80,000 - 218,000


Also keep in mind that the 1870 stuff had an additional 40 years to get lost or destroyed. If these numbers are correct then a couple of thoughts come to mind:

1. as prices increase linearly, interested buyers decrease nearly exponentially
   
2. there is a whole lot more interest in WWI than the events of 1870/71

[Steve Campbell]

Thanks for that information. Sometimes rarity doesn't reflect price. According to this site itself there were about 91,000 or so KVK 1st class without swords made, but you can get these for under $150.00 sometimes. That's a lot less made than say 1939 EK1's which go for alot more. Why? And lets face it how many KVK1's without swords do you see offered for sale? Not as many as EK1's which are offered on the estand alone almost everyday. A little off topic but just saying.

[Westmark]

The EK1

Todd, feel free to jump in here and add any comments or ask
any questions.

I guess I am going to go to Detlev Niemann on these, these are probably too tricky/specialized set of crosses. Were there a lot of prinzen fakes? I thought this type was not commonly faked or copied. I love how they look, but a fake can look good too. As they go off to Niemann...Please be real, please be real, please be real............

[Biro]

I guess I am going to go to Detlev Niemann on these, these are probably too tricky/specialized set of crosses. Were there a lot of prinzen fakes? I thought this type was not commonly faked or copied.....

Todd

Save yourself the $$ for a COA - a simple search for 'prinzen' and 'fake' will give you more than enough reason to be heavily suspicious of these two prinzens you have and will assure you Niemann will not like them either.

There are many secrets to these very destinctive 'small crown' prinzens which I have illustrated and discussed over the past year and I cannot face replicating it all again here for you. Suffice to say, rare items like the prinzen - purporting to be made over 100 years apart - should not share the same frames, crowns and in most cases, reverse core design.

You might wanna pay a quick visit here as well ... http://gmic.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=3470

Here's some more - 12 of which came from ebay in the last 6 months. All just like yours except for the dates, which span from Napoleonic to 1st World wars. And yes - many of these fakes are ''maker marked'' by Wagner, Godet, JGuS, Crown/Moon/800 etc... Rare, huh?...

Avoid this particular type of prinzen....like you avoid plagues.

[Westmark]

Todd

Save yourself the $$ for a COA - a simple search for 'prinzen' and 'fake' will give you more than enough reason to be heavily suspicious of these two prinzens you have and will assure you Niemann will not like them either.

There are many secrets to these very destinctive 'small crown' prinzens which I have illustrated and discussed over the past year and I cannot face replicating it all again here for you. Suffice to say, rare items like the prinzen - purporting to be made over 100 years apart - should not share the same frames, crowns and in most cases, reverse core design.

You might wanna pay a quick visit here as well ... http://gmic.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=3470

Here's some more - 12 of which came from ebay in the last 6 months. All just like yours except for the dates, which span from Napoleonic to 1st World wars. And yes - many of these fakes are ''maker marked'' by Wagner, Godet, JGuS, Crown/Moon/800 etc... Rare, huh?...

Avoid this particular type of prinzen....like you avoid plagues.

So you think those are garbage? It's like having a small knife in your gut!!!
What about the regular size EK2 1870, any opinions?

[gregM]

Todd, I think I see a resemblance between one of the pictures in Marshall's compilation and the photo you sent me of the cased set.

[Westmark]

Todd, I think I see a resemblance between one of the pictures in Marshall's compilation and the photo you sent me of the cased set.

I saw that too! Is this the final word? Is Biro the authority on this, not questioning his knowledge maybe I am just hoping

[Tiger 1]

Marshall (Biro) is about as good as they get. He's done his homework very well.

Sorry, But hoping won't make it so any more than wishing for Santa on Christmas eve.

It's sometimes the price we have to pay to be collectors. We've all done it at one time or another.

Tony

[Tiger 1]

*

[Westmark]

Marshall (Biro) is about as good as they get. He's done his homework very well.

Sorry, But hoping won't make it so any more than wishing for Santa on Christmas eve.

It's sometimes the price we have to pay to be collectors. We've all done it at one time or another.

Tony

DRUMROLL PLEASE!!!! The word is in and I quote:

"sorry look copy to me
detlev"

The man has spoken I cry in my beer and I laud Biro's expertice!!

P.S. WHAT ABOUT THE NORMAL EK 2 1870? Opinions please.

[Ultrarnnr]

Prinzen EK's

It looks like my Prinzen collection of 1870 and 1914 EK's are all fakes. Even buying from dealers like Emedals.ca and Liverpool Medals of England are not immune from passing copies off as originals. A very expensive lesson of rushing to complete a collection. Has anyone seen the 1870 mini on ebay.de ??http://cgi.ebay.de/Miniatur-Orden-Ei...QQcmdZViewItem

[gregM]

Never seen one like it. Starting price is mighty steep.

[Ultrarnnr]

I saw one like it that looked aged on ebay.de and it sold for over 400 euros....

[Tiger 1]

Gentlemen,

Original period prinzen EKs are rare to very rare depending on the era we are interested in. Even more so for an original '14 Weiderhollungsspange to the 1870 EKII.

There are no bargains for the real deal.

I have seen so many 'prizens' on the market in recent times that one gets the impression that they are readily availabe. The fact is that they are not.

Just a word of caution to those that have stardust in their eyes from looking for bargains on ebay.

Do you homework very, very carefully before reaching for your money.

Tony