Medal-Bar with Cross for the next of kin

[JensF.]

Arrived today! Bar and ribbons are completely genuine.

[JensF.]

The EK with a very strange makers mark. Something like "??1?".

[WNickel]

Congratulations.... a little bit to expensive for me

[Dez H]

Interesting bar, were you actually authorised to wear two Honour Crosses at the same time?

There was a thread a month or so back on this combination but I cannot remember what we came up with and I can’t seem to find the thread.

[George Stimson]

That's a very nice bar, and it's interesting that the pin/catch arrangement is reversed from what is typical on medal bars.

George

[JensF.]

Werner, it wasn't sooooo expensive if I look at your medal-bars...

I've just got a mail from the seller. He talked to the widow of the son of the owner of this bar. He fought in WWI and lost his father. I'll try to find out what happened to his mother. If she was dead too he was the only living family member and so he was eligible for both crosses! A very rare combination and a medal-bar with a very sad history. I've mailed him for more informations, maybe unit, rank and his name.

[Rick Research]

I've seen enough bars- usually "Werner type" Big Huge Pretty Ones too expensive for me! -- with both types of Hindenburg Cross so that doesn't bother me at all.

THIS bar is quite interesting to me because the usual hooks are not there-- this was made to permanently attach the crosses so they don't slide off, AND neatly done at custom measured levels for it to look neat too. Nice!

[Christian L]

a really nice bar, but was it allowed to weare both on a medalbar?
however - really nice
christian

[Ed_Haynes]

Aren't there two questions?

1- Was it allowed? Was it official?

2- Was it actually done at the time? (And not invented later by "helpful" dealers and collectors.)

I think I can guess at the answers to both, but is there any reliable documentary evidence on either question?

Ed Haynes

[JensF.]

1. After the regulations this cross was for the next of kin. Usually father - mother or son - daughter. What if the "fighter" himself was the last and only next of kin? He would be eligible for the cross since there is nothing mentioned in the regulations that someone can get only one cross.

Now we need someone with the original text of the regulations!

2. This bar absolutely. It was custom-made with the extra high soldered hook for the EK (senseless with the Landwehr-DA, waaaaaay too small!)

Getting the documents for both crosses would be a little sensation.

I've got a mail from the seller, he will ask the widow about the name of the owner.

[Rick Research]

Actually the Hindenburg Cross for Next of Kin was authorized for widows or parents, not for children. I suppose the husband of a female nurse killed or died on active duty--of whom there were many-- was just out of luck.

I have seen these not only in original period medal bars, long ago and far away, but also in period photos, being worn together.

What I am NOT clear about is if more than ONE "Next of Kin" Cross was bestowed. I believe if a widow survived, she got it, period. But what if she didn't apply for the cross, or had remarried and wasn't interested in wearing one? Did the father and mother of a dead soldier have to "fight" over who got the paperwork to wear one? Was it "first applied, first granted?"

Given the numbers awarded, of course, the vast majority of next of kin simply didn't bother to apply for one at all.

And given the numbers we find unmounted, most of the people who DID apply never wore the cross themselves anyway.

In 35 years of collecting, I have seen perhaps half a dozen award DOCUMENTS for widows, and only two to parents. In both cases, those were granted to the father. Because Papa Wears The Medals In Our Family? Stogie-Rick just got an original photo of a NOK mother wearing one... Hardly a viable statistical sample....

[stogieman]

Next of Kin Cross in use

Here's the photo Rick mentioned. haven't had a chance to take a better pix yet...

[George Stimson]

I have an award document to parents. It's made out to Dad.

George

[JensF.]

I was wrong about the regulations. First the cross was awarded to the father and after his dead to the mother. If a husband was killed it was awarded to the widow.
In the last mail of the seller he told me that he talked to the widow and she said that this man was the last living member of his family and got the cross. I am not sure if there was some kind of "hardness-regulation" where the last family member could get the cross too, but usually it was NOT awarded to the children.

I'll inform you if I get more informations since this thread is getting very interesting!

[WNickel]

..a document "Für Witwen"....