Engraved Imperial Tank Badge

[IMPERIAL QUEST]

What you guys think of this one. The badge looks good to me from the pics, but there is something that bothers me about the engraving. It does indeed look old, but inconsistent. The inscription commemorates the battles shared with the enemy by the two, and over a lady named Jaqueline....boy, what stories there must have been.

What bothers me is this. If this was a gift from one soldier to another, I presume it was purchased new when presented. Continuing with this line of thought, look at the name "Jaqueline"...it appears to be engraved over an area that has a dip or a ding as the outline looks different from the rest of the piece. Why would a new piece have dings in the reverse? Your thoughts??

[IMPERIAL QUEST]

Reverse

[IMPERIAL QUEST]

closer

[Don D.]

I saw that one and just couldn't pull the trigger on it.

[IMPERIAL QUEST]

I saw that one and just couldn't pull the trigger on it.

I know what you mean. I have wrestled for several days over this one. Engraving is always a tough call, and my presumption that it was new when given, is just that-a presumption. There is no way to really know for sure. I guess in order to buy something like this, one must just believe....

[regular122]

Steven,

I'm no expert on these but the engraving looks old and is double traced--not often seen on fakes.

"In commemoration of the battle over 'Jacqueline'"

Do you think that 'Jacqueline' would be a tank name? They did name the A7Vs as photos show. Some known ones were:

501 Gretchen
527 Lotti
542 Elfriede

Some others had male names or mythological names. I don't know if there was a correlation to the male tank (guns) and female tank (MGs) for naming or not. Haven't researched it. Another possibility for the name is an armored car or a captured Mark V in service in post war Berlin. There are ample pictures that show these in street battles. But just a thought on why a name like that would be on the reverse and a possible avenue for research. Steve

[IMPERIAL QUEST]

Steven,

I'm no expert on these but the engraving looks old and is double traced--not often seen on fakes.

"In commemoration of the battle over 'Jacqueline'"

Do you think that 'Jacqueline' would be a tank name? They did name the A7Vs as photos show. Some known ones were:

501 Gretchen
527 Lotti
542 Elfriede

Some others had male names or mythological names. I don't know if there was a correlation to the male tank (guns) and female tank (MGs) for naming or not. Haven't researched it. Another possibility for the name is an armored car or a captured Mark V in service in post war Berlin. There are ample pictures that show these in street battles. But just a thought on why a name like that would be on the reverse and a possible avenue for research. Steve

Thanks for that reply 4th ID brother... I didn't think of that. I am seriously leaning toward a possible purchase. With this firm, there isn't really any risk of being taken as I have complete trust in the staff. My only obstacle is of course, the price. I am going to cross my fingers, and say a prayer that they have a lay away plan longer than the standard 90 days. Being an old tanker myself, this would be a very sweet addition to my collection.

[Ferg 1]

Hi, this is really weird,I was just looking at that badge on the German dealers site before going on the forum,then guess what , the first thread I see is this one !! The reason I was looking at this badge is that I have just bought a stamped cliche example looks to be by the same maker. It is in 800 silver and marked as such on the pin. It also has a maker mark on the top of the hinge flange which is almost like a cross between a Maybauer crest and a Rothe of Vienna crest, in the central shield are the letters AWS does that ring any bells to anyone?? I cannot post pics. but if someone sends me a PM I will send pictures to them to post, cheers Fergus.

[Don D.]

Posting for Fergus.

[Don D.]

The reverse.

[Don D.]

Maker mark. I'll let Fergus give us the details on the badge and where he found it etc...

[Don D.]

I'll add a pic of the AWS trademark. I found this info here: http://www.pickelhauben.net/articles/Helmet_Makers.htm

[Ferg 1]

tank badge

many thanks to Don for posting pictures of my tank badge, it checks out at 800 silver as the pin suggests,the pin is drawn hardened silver wire. It has the AWS mark on the hinge flange for A Werner und Sohne,Berlin.The tank and skull have been burnished to give a very sparkly look which is very effective,although sadly the rest of the badge has been polished recently. It is definately not cast or electro-formed ,there is a slight double imaging on the reverse around the wreath area which to my mind is a good sign of being stamped as this effect,as I understand is due to very slight movement in the male die platten as it exerts its max pressure when stamping ,so causing this doubling effect,( I have several pilot badges with this minor fault. I am always very dubious about these badges ,I reckon one out of every hundred or so could be real!! I am not saying one way or the other on my one but it seems to check out in all ways. I do not think it was ever used( overstock?) The pin and catch details ( thin pin with flat end) seem to be in line with the pillow back EK1 made by AWS. What do you guys reckon? Thanks again Don,
Ferg1

[Don D.]

Personally I like it.

[Mike Kenny]

Hi,

Two very interesting badges here! Neither of them Juncker, so most likely later 20s or 30s replacements - assuming they are genuine, which is a hard call given there is so little info available on them. Although there are similarities between them - most obviously the wreath and the "incuse relief" tank guns, they definitely came from different obverse dies as there are simply too many smaller differences (skull's nose, shell burst details, bow form/details, etc, etc).

The first type (top pics) I think of as Meybauer (based mainly on the pin shape, not because I've seen a believable marked example) but it's the first time I've seen an AWS marked one - it's very believable with great detail!

I can state that the "Meybauer" type is imo definitely reproduced, as I've seen some real shocking obverse detail/reverse hardware combinations. It would not surprise me to learn there are much better copies of the type as well. I also get the impression that it was not that well designed to begin with compared to some other types though. Fyi, there are stamped versions of the "Meybauer" type - some 800 silver marked. The similarities between these two badges do make me think that maybe the same die maker was involved - both firms are in Berlin after all (assuming that Meybauer did actually make the first type!).

Regards
Mike