Anything other than Medals and Orders,? Why?

[Bill M]

--There have been a couple of posts on the main forum and Die Kniepe regarding why we collect and collections other than medals, badges, etc.
--I was just wondering about these questions as they pertain to us, here in Imperial-land.
--Why Imperial? and anything else but medals?
--For me the there are a couple of reasons 'why Imperial'. You see, I kinda worked my way backwards in study and collecting from WW2 to Fredrick the Great. The Imperial Awards, primarily the enamelled ones, have an elegance and history unto themselves that aren't matched by the 3rd Reich. For me, 'Germany' in the 19th century, prior to Kaiser Bill the Second's reign, had a noble sense of purpose that began at Jena and culminated with the death of Wilhelm the First. What might have been, had Friedrich Wilhelm lived to a ripe old age?
--To that end, to satisfy the historian in me I have also compiled a small but nevertheless impressive (to me at least) collection of signed letters and papers of the prominent (and not-so-prominent) leaders of the time. The most noticable being MY 'big three': A simple 'thank-you' note written in 1890 by Field-Marshal Helmuth von Moltke, a letter from Kaiser Wilhelm the First dated 1883, and an 1809 letter written by Field Marshal Gebhard von Blucher.
--I collect prints and old history books too. I also have obtained a pair of very interesting 'patriotic bandannas' {for lack of a better description}. One depicts the battle at Weissenburg on August 4th 1870, the other shows a Prussian soldier in the center circled by the awards of the time {1870 EK, Red Eagle, Crown Order, etc.} These are in turn circled by the shoulder boards and epaulettes of rank {Major, General-Oberst, General-Feldmarschall, etc}. The surrounding field contains ranging info, Battalion formations, drills, etc. and up top is a breakdown of an early Mauser. The border of the 'bandanna' contains the music for 'Zapfenstreich', 'Marsch', 'Halt, etc. and Battalion calls.
--What do you say, gents?
-P.S. If anyone is interested in seeing anything, let me know as I am always looking for an excuse to post pics
-P.S.S. Sorta off-topic, but, anyone see '55 Days at Peking' lately? There's a ballroom scene with Military men dressed to the hilt, Orders and Decorations everywhere!!
-There was a Prussian with a 3 medal bar, I only caught the 1870 EK2 and one of the 1866 Campaign awards. I ordered the damned movie so that I could press pause a couple of times (how bad is that? ).
Regards, All....Bill

[ 15 April 2001: Message edited by: Bill M ]

[ 15 April 2001: Message edited by: Bill M ]

[stogieman]

Hi Bill! Interesting topic. I started collecting militaria as a kid, spent my paper route $$ in the local antique shop, or at Reid's Brimfield Flea Market when it was only one field (Gawd, I'm gettin' old!). I could never afford what I really wanted. With time and age, I rekindled my interest when quite ill in 1999. Started buying WW2 Nazi all over again. Bid on a medal group of a Saxon Leutnant with documents, etc. and when it arrived, I was stunned at how beautiful his Albert Order KC2 was. I've been hooked on Imperial ever since. Tough to find though, I usually rely on our overseas friends to "feed the monkey". Best regards & Happy Hunting!

[Rick Research]

Imperial militaria offers an amazing range of collecting options. The multiple states of the Second Reich all had their own awards, insignia, etc allowing either for narrow specialization, or a breadth of limited-budget collecting not possible with "same old same old" Third Reich militaria. While uniform aesthetics may be a draw, I think the decorations of Imperial Germany win hands down over the Third Reich's monotonous uniformity.
I've had ribbon bars from which it is possible to tell what Division the owner served in during WWI---try that with a WW2 bar!

Am I the only one out here collecting original postcard sized photographs--actual "snapshots" printed in that format, not commercially sold cards? My first graphic "contribution" (thanks to Mark) may be found in "Kneipe" under "Easter Greeting." Didn't want to post that in here and frighten the children.

[ 16 April 2001: Message edited by: Rick Lundstrom ]

[ 16 April 2001: Message edited by: Rick Lundstrom ]

[bhholst]

Hello Bill, Rick and Rick.
Read your posts with great interest and share in most sentiments expressed better than I can.
My first plan was to collect only WW II Heer related awards I soon branched into whole groups and somewhat into uniforms because one group came with a tunic and a visor hat.
Some medalbars I obtained included Imperial/German states awards, so there I went. Having been born in a Hanseatic City I had to have them all and was lucky to also find docs for them and cases for the Bremen and Hamburg ones. You know how nice the enamel work is. A Hohenzollern was found with the photo and the document then a complete group of a Hohenzollern recipient incl. buttonhole miniatures. A Prussian Golden Military Merit Cross which could hardly be simpler, then one in a case and on and on... Having the docs to go with medals to me gives them the completeness by knowing something about the man. This also goes for two Nationale which belonged to soldiers from my general home area who served in the battles around Verdun, one lost a leg. Important items to me but hardly for others.
However to find ones way through the maze of the different state awards is beyond me.Even with the help of reference books, so I am sticking with the Imperial/Prussian pretty much.
Some Imperial uniforms have of late been added because there are other somewhat sentimental attachments here as well.
Bill M.: You have some really nice articles and going way back which I don't dare hope for.
B.H.H.

[Bill M]

Welcome, B.H.
--I am glad that you appreciate them, and I'm glad I got some of my things when I did because I wouldn't be able to afford some of them now!
--Here is something that you may appreciate:
Regards, Bill

P.S.--I wish I had the nerve to polish it as the silver would gleam! Hmmmmm?...Nah,..I...CAN'T....


[ 16 April 2001: Message edited by: Bill M ]

[bhholst]

Hello Bill.
Thank you for posting the medal, I have not seen it before. Clearly all three city arms are today as shown here. The color schemes of red-white survive as well as you know ( last Hamburg medal for the 1963 flood fighters has the ribbon color scheme again).
I have a nice Bremen Hanseatic Cross 1914/18 presentation case , fairly large in red with the Bremen city arms in silver -like on the lid. But still looking for a Lübeck case, it will take time as it did to find the award document.
Thanks again,
B.H.H.

[Jody]

Hello,
I always collected Imperial. I always picked it up at the same time I collected 3rd Reich.

I had many neighbors as a kid who were WWI vets and I loved their tales.

What also got me hooked on Imperial was when I was a small child and my mother took me to the theater to see the films Blue Max and Lawrance of Arabia.

I also collect pickelhaubes, Sanke cards, Imperial belt buckles, along with 1960's TV show toys, and presidential campaign items. I also have a nice collection of Louis XIV and XV furniture.
Regards,
Jody

[McCulloh]

Yeah Rick: I totally agree with you.
I too got hooked on Imperial/Weimar via WW2. After I started collecting again 6 years ago I quickly realized that the fakers in Nazi stuff were just way too good now for poor old me, especially the badges. I feel a little safer with NCO/jr. officer bars and am slowly working my way up to better stuff.
I purchased Verkuilen Agers' Freikorps books because he answered a question about a Silesian eagle for me on the old AOL Forum and he seemed to be one of the few really erudite, scholarly and even-keeled people on that forum. That opened a whole new world for me, I had only slightly known of the Freikorps movement. Who knew it was so interesting and complex?
From there I began to read about the Freikorps, Stahlhelm and Rotfront. Then I read "The Kings Depart" while recovering from flu and from there got interested in Weimar history.
I like the bars because they take up less space (a big plus for the wife) and tell a more interesting story. I love those Silesian Eagles and forign awards.
By the way, I also collect postcards. I shall scan one of future members of the KreigsgefangnerBund" to you.
Cheers,
JeMc

[Billy G]

Other than medals I collect daggers, and on a rare occasion swords. In fact being split on the two has seriously put a damper on finances so I've really had to specialize. It's down to Iron Crosses and the occasional dagger. Why daggers? I suppose they remind me of all that German symbolism and heritage. Daggers like that of the SA and SS harken back to 16th century hunting daggers. There's also a certain timeline on other daggers that can followed depending on when during the Reich they were manufactured and which materials were utilized. They tell a story. It's not that these items were carried in battle, and perhaps used to gut some poor Allied soldier. It's the imagery and history attached to these purely ornamental relics. It's also the quality of the individual pieces. Want confirmation? Just examine an early dagger closely. Check the weight of the fittings, the snug fit between grip and crossguard, the snap as the blade hits home in the scabbard, the crossgraining on the blade. I could go on and on. Sounds almost poetic, but you could hold an old political dagger and almost hear the chants at the numerous parades and rallies. And like a badge of honor SS daggers were earned and subsequently awarded in an elaborate ceremony. I not only collect Third Reich daggers but have happily branched out to Imperial and pre-Imperial daggers as well. I was lucky enough to acquire a grouping from an Imperial naval officer who was at the Battle of Jutland. I was interested in the gentleman's Applikant dagger, but also included was his ivory-gripped, double etched officer's saber, his near perfect brocade belt with 100% gilted Imperial buckle, and a copy in English and German of his log during the battle itself. There was also a couple of pictures of the man and some period postcards he sent to the family. A terrific grouping in wonderful condition with a history as well. If his medals were included i would have been in heaven, but unfortunately that was not to be.

[Daniel Cole]

I collect primarily imperial medals because they are not as offensive to the uneducated as WWII items. Something about the Hakenreuz and its stigma. I also collected by chance a Ranglisteauszug from a WWI Lt who was awarded the EK 1/2, Old FA 1/2 and the HHO w/X ( I have the Urkunde to his award). In researching his career, Reserve Ersatz Regiment 4, and its troops came alive for me. This lead to obtaining the regimental history, an EK 2 award document from a foot soldier, and replicating the medal bar of one of the regimental commanders. I also learned more about the various battles all because of the Ranglisteauszug and the Regimental history.

Friedrich Nietzsche said "Ein Mensch lebt in seinen Büchern wieder, wenn in jeder Generation nur ein Mensch Dein Buch liest, bist Du nicht tod".

"A person lives again in his books, if in each generation only one person reads your book, you are not dead."

I use this quote and apply it to my collecting. Kind of sentimental I guess.

[ 19 April 2001: Message edited by: Daniel Cole ]

[Rick Research]

I can only echo Daniel's sentiments. For me, the point to collecting has always been the PERSON, not the THING. I've used my research sources to put names, careers, and sometimes even faces to an anonymous medal bar.
A recent Manion imperial ribbon bar was won by a friend after I came up with the owner's identity--a nobleman among the 25% of regular officers killed in the first 3 months of WWI, leaving behind a young widow and infant.
Or, another example--a named farewell presentation sword was given to a junior member of one of the smaller rulling houses who was stripped of his title and cashiered from the army for marrying a commoner without royal permission--his "disgrace" docuemnted in the Almanach de Gotha.

Every piece of metal or cloth has a story, and sometimes the memory can be restored. It doesn't matter if the object is dim or dingy, if the original owner and his story can be re-awakened. Rick

[Doug See]

I became interested in WWI as a young kid. My grandfathers were both in WWI; one in the U.S. Navy and one in the AEF artillery. As a kid, I played with their helmets and uniforms. I still have a photo of my Navy grandfather stepping off a train, coming home, and wearing a souvenir M1916 stahlhelm backwards! My grandmother told me she "threw that old helmet out years ago because the leather inside smelled up the attic." My first Imperial item was a gasmask, sawtooth bayonet, and ersatz bayonet given to me by a vet friend of the family.
Thirty-five years later, I am still collecting and have specialized in Imperial cross awards.

[Dave Danner]

My Dad joined the Navy on his 18th birthday - October 29, 1918. He was just beginning basic training when the war ended. He had enlisted as a conscientious objector to be a corpsman (he subsequently went to seminary and became a minister). Whenever I hear about COs today who joined the military ofr college money and get pissed when they actually are called to duty, I remember how my Dad joined the Navy as a CO, because even though he wouldn't fight for religious reasons, he wouldn't shirk his duty either. I guess he was balancing his duty to render unto Caesar his service to country and render unto God his devotion to humanity.

He never criticized my interest in military history as a child and he died when I was 11. My brother became a police officer and I became an Army officer. Although we all had different career choices, I'd like to think that we all were united in a sense of duty and the idea that your job was what you were and not merely what you did.

Getting back to the original point of the thread, my interest in military history and my German ethnic background led me to be a scholar of WW2. Like some of you, I was uncomfortable with being labeled a Nazi sympathizer by the ignorant, so I broadened my interests. World War 1 was interesting because of the scale of the war, John Keegan's descriptions of the Somme in The Face of Battle, and my Dad's (limited) service. My grandfather emigrated to the US from Baden, so I am interested in that area as well.

I was in Rastatt in 1999 at the conclusion of the celebrations of the 150th anniversary of the 1848-49 Freiheitskrieg, which divided Baden. I got to drink some Freiheitsbier while watching the reenactors storming the palace. The palace is also home of the Military History Museum (Wehrgeschichtliches Museum Rastatt).

Just some rambling thoughts on the subject.