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    #1

    Verdienst um den Staat

    I picked up four of these guys and I don't need all of them. I'd like some help with values to help me make my decision.

    There are four. Two are parade mounted one is on a non-fluorescing ribbon, one stands alone. The one on the non-combatants ribbon is I believe a jeweler’s copy. The reason I say this is because the actual minting of the front side is different, and the medal is heavier and thicker than the others, and it is mounted on a setup to allow it to flop around on the ribbon. (The combatant's one is held stiffly in place by the wide attachment ring and the ribbon mount.)

    An OEK number would be especially helpful.

    I’ve also included as the fourth picture a photo of the medals next to a Brunswick cross and an Iron Cross 2nd. I’ve done this because I was surprised after only having seen the pictures at how large these were when I actually had them in hand.
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    Last edited by ottomaton; 03-25-2006, 07:18 PM.
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    #2
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      #3
      ..
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        #4
        ...
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          #5
          Here's the one with the Iron Cross & Brunswick
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            #6
            Hello ottomaton,

            Since you did not mention it in your description, I don’t know if you are aware of it or not; but the medal on the right in post #1 appears to be on the rarely awarded lifesaving ribbon.

            Best wishes,

            Wild Card

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              #7
              In fact I knew that it was on the less common Lifesaving Ribon but I can't say that I understood it to be rare as your post indicates. Thank you for this clarification. In my head I had somehow converted this to non-combatants.

              This was part of a collection which also included a few rare medals like a Waldeck Golden Merit Metal with Swords and a Reu******223; silver merit metal with swords. I will post photos of these when my camera is available.

              Thank you for the information, I do appreciate it quite a bit.

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                #8
                Nice medals! One of my fav Imperials.
                Nice and big and solid.
                Strange that both mounted awards are mounted in reverse (I think, in this drunken state of mine ).
                Strange the discrepencies in the strikings on the obverse of the two unmounted awards....
                Thanks,
                Eric Gaumann

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                  #9
                  wow thats ironic i was just going to post a thread with similer questions on the same medal!!! i have two of them on with a still non moving ring and with a ball joint that lets it move about! is the one that moves the wearing copy one!! also is the ribbion a standard ek style ribbion?
                  thanks for any help!!

                  Comment

                    #10
                    Just to be clear here, all of the anomalies besides the parade black being backwards are anomalies regarding the one mounted with the lifesaving ribbon.

                    The problems with the lifesaving ribbon medal are as follows:
                    • The pattern of the reverse strike is different.
                    • The reverse and obverse strike are done to a different depth.
                    • The medal itself is aprox. 1.5x as thick without any increase in diameter.
                    • The mount to the ribbon is different, utilizing a small ring connected to a larger one. The other medals have a single large ring attached directly to the medal. All of the medals that I have seen that utilize the second type of mount tend to be older.


                    The final point is what makes me believe that it is a parade mount or a later replacement. This is only a guess. The first three medals are identical in construction.

                    Whenever people start saying things are strange, whether intended or not, my mind immediately thinks “forgery”. Though I can not claim any particular experience in these matters, my impression of the quality of the coining on the three identical medals makes me to believe them 100% authentic. The other one is of a lesser and more modern quality, so I can not be sure as with the first three. Since they came from the same source, however, I’m inclined to not doubt them.

                    Here are the other medals that I got in the same lot. The Service to the State cross is loose from it’s mount.

                    I am somewhat unsure of the swords on the Waldeck medal. They are silver, but they seem to have a patina, and they are firmly connected to the medal and the ring.

                    If anybody would care to comment on this setup, I would be very appreciative.
                    Attached Files
                    Last edited by ottomaton; 04-01-2006, 10:54 AM.

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                      #11
                      Oh, to answer a previous question as far as I can tell the standard ribbon is identical to the Imperial Iron Cross ribbon.
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                        #12
                        A quick check shows that "Verdienst um den Staat" is the obverse and the other side the reverse. I base this on listings on Liverpool Medals, as well as the ribbon bar listed as #22 on Andreas Thies' upcoming auction.

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                          #13
                          >Whenever people start saying things are strange, whether intended
                          >or not, my mind immediately thinks “forgery”.

                          That's not what I meant to say.
                          I'm not an expert by any means but I doubt there's too many quality copies of the first medal.
                          What I meant by "strange" was more like 'hey, that's a variation I haven't seen yet'.
                          And you may be right on the obverse/reverse issue. I'm at work and have no references handy.

                          PS. Them Waldecks is sweeeet!!
                          Last edited by EricFG; 04-01-2006, 04:25 PM.
                          Thanks,
                          Eric Gaumann

                          Comment

                            #14
                            ...these medals had been awarded over decades in hughe numbers. This one is a prime example on coinage differences. The tooling had to be replaced several times, which explains the differences on the actual detail variations. The solid attached ring loop is the old way of putting those medals to wear. The ring loop started to be used much later.

                            Wearers copies would normally be made from silvered bronze. Real pieces exist in solid silver and zink.

                            By the way, there was a pretty good 2 part article about this topic in Money Trend (German coin magazine)

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