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**Rick Research** · 10-24-2001, 08:57 PM

Brian--this particular mark has bedevilled us for some time now--it is an UNKNOWN maker--at least to us!

The mark is found on Prussian WWI awards, flying badges, I've got it on a Mecklenburg-Schwerin Friedrich Franz Cross 1st Class, Jeff McCulloh has it on an enamel "swank" version of the 1919 Silesian Eagle 2nd Class.... there may be other awards by this unknown maker. (OK, did somebody have it on an OLdenburg FA Cross 1st Class, I dimly remember...)

[ 26 October 2001: Message edited by: Rick Lundstrom ]

**eric** · 10-25-2001, 01:46 AM

That's a very nice Paul Meybauer patented
attachment on the back of the EK 1. Unfortunately it is missing the back plate which should be in the form of small iron cross. A private purchase item which cost a bit more than the usual EK1!
Previtera states on page 196 that this is the seal of Rothe & Neffe, Vienna.

[ 25 October 2001: Message edited by: eric ]

**Rich G** · 10-25-2001, 09:09 AM

I think Eric is right about the Meybauer connection.

Isn't that unknown mark that of Paul Meybauer company as often found on Spanish Crosses?

Where is the Frank & Reif connection??

Richard

[ 25 October 2001: Message edited by: Richard Gordon ]

**eric** · 10-25-2001, 02:37 PM

Up till I read 'The Iron Time' I always considered that crest to be the mark of Paul Meybauer of Berlin. A prolific jeweler's firm who was (and still is) very well known for their high quality badges and orders. I know Roth & Neffe have a similar crest.
Brian, here is a picture of the complete
EK1. It is a poor pic as the EK1 is black with tarnish but I think you'll get the idea. Back plate should also be of silver.

[ 25 October 2001: Message edited by: eric ]

**Brian R** · 10-25-2001, 06:53 PM

I had a complete brain cramp. I should have never mentioned the name Frank & Reif as I was thinking of Roth & Neffe (and I should have never mentioned the marking was a crown).

The stamp looks similar to the marking of Roth & Neffe. I always thought it looked like the marking on the Prinzen EK on page 196 of the Iron Time. But now that you guys have said it should have a back plate, it makes my think this could be the top/center cross on page 190 - with the stamp covered by the backplate.

I'm still confused as to whether this is the marking of Roth & Neffe or Paul Meybauer as mentioned. Has the stamp been referred to as the marking of Rothe and Neffe anywhere other than the Iron Time?

Thanks again,
Brian

**Rick Research** · 10-25-2001, 10:57 PM

This is only generically "similar" to Rothe's mark, in the same way any vaguely heraldic design would be.

Aside from Prussian awards, it has been observed only on north German (Mecklenburg-Schwerin and Oldenburg) awards, which would lead me to seek the firm somewhere up in the general vicinity of Hamburg. Dating German WWI awards like flying badges is always problematic (1916? 1926?...), and this mark has been seen on a doubtless 1920s Silesian Eagle, so whoever this maker was, they were still in business after WWI.

I am always deeply, profoundly unhappy to find Rothe's Viennese mark on ANY German WWI award--there was powerfully little reason for any legitimate, period manufacture in Austria of awards readily available in Germany from numerous mom and pop jewelers' establishments.

Personally, I would regard 99.999% of all Rothe marked German wartime awards as "collectors copies"--whether made in 1931, or 1997. While it could be argued that there may have been some minimal after-market for middle aged Austro-Hungarian WWI recipients of Iron Crosses, etc in the 1930s, there is absolutely zero reason why say, the 1918 German submarine badge, should EVER have been manufactured in Vienna.

This mark is so tiny, and so fussy, and so blurred, my best guess is that the maker was the House Jeweler for one of the smaller German states, and that the mystery crest is that state's coat of arms, like the British "purveyor to H.M. The Queen" logos. We know that this is a maker's mark and not a city hallmark (like Berlin's Crescent and Imperial Crown), because it has been found stamped on items that were not silver.

[ 25 October 2001: Message edited by: Rick Lundstrom ]

**eric** · 10-26-2001, 03:34 PM

I'll try to answer everyone's questions with these pics.

Here is a so called 'Stern von Malplaquet' issued by the Freikorps von Diebitsch. Notice the identical patented
screwback system used ONLY by Paul Meybauer. D.R.G.M. number should be 653146 on all discs regardless of type of medal (EK1 or whatever). Copies exist but the numbers are different.

Image of the reverse:

Closeup of hallmark which reads: P. Meybauer Berlin Junker st 19.

The EK1 that started this thread would probably be worth on a good day about $225 if it had the back plate. Hope I cleared things up!
I would just like to add that it seems that the firm of P. Meybauer had it's heyday in the 20's and 30's. They made many fine quality WW1 badges and Freikorps badges which were usually top drawer compared to other makers. A 1914 EK made by them must be considered a vanity replacement piece. They also made some pretty nice badges during or before WW2 for the 3rd Reich regime.
I have always suspected that Previtera made a small booboo on page 196. The fact that he possibly may have OK'd as authentic an engraved 'KO' posted by another Forum member a while back just illustrates the idea that everybody is human and will make mistakes. I personally can attest for that! This is by no means an attempt to take anything away from Stephen.

[ 26 October 2001: Message edited by: eric ]

**Rick Research** · 10-26-2001, 09:09 PM

HOORAY!!!!!!!! Millions of thanks, Eric--this establishes whose mark this was, once and for all! It has been driving me nuts for years!

Meybauer!

Rick

**McCulloh** · 10-27-2001, 01:15 PM

Hooray!
I too am happy-more so that I just picked up a Baltic Cross ist class in bad bad condition with the mark!
Thanks,
JeMc

**Doug See** · 10-27-2001, 02:29 PM

Thanks for clearing all that up. Rothe and Neff's logo is similar to PM's. Rothe's logo is a double headed Austrian eagle with wings and no heraldic shield. It looks very similar and it's easy to see how they may be confused.

**Brian R** · 10-28-2001, 10:00 PM

Thanks for the replies, everyone!
And thanks for your patients with the earlier brain cramp.

Best,
Brian

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