Should I strip this??

[Mike Kenny]

Hi,

Not a question I would normally ask, but when this one arrived it was the first question I asked (I don't doubt the authenticity of the badge itself). Two reasons;

1) the quality of the glossy black finish is shocking
2) even though the badge is tombak, there appears to be a worn gold (fire-gilt) finish underneath. You might just be able to make it out on the lower part of the helmet, the swords above the helmut and the pacthy to the obverse lower left of the bow. There is also evidence on the reverse edges of the badge.

I can't think of a reason why a genuine period gold grade badge would have been painted black. Can anyone else? If there is a potential good reason, I'll definitely leave it alone.

Whadda ya reckon? Should I strip the painted black finish off?

Regards
Mike

[jwburchell]

G'day Mike:

I, too, cannot imagine why someone would paint a genuine period gold grade wound badge black, thus downgrading it - in more ways than one.

If it were me, I would leave it as is, with the character that it has, and continue to enjoy the speculation. Just my "2 cents", mate.

Here's cheers, first for the day!

John

[iltisfront]

hello,
couldn´t it be a normal brass one where the helmet only seems to be golden because the black paint had gone away later then on the other parts and so it only looks as if it was a golden one,if you remove colour from a brass item then this is the same effect,the saved parts seem to be golden and the rest is darker,i think that a better picture of the helmet would help

[sb98]

Hi Mike,

I say use some paint thinner and strip the black paint. It's probably just a brass badge, not a gold one, but you might get lucky. The black paint doesn't look original and the badge isn't worth much at all the way it. You have nothing to loose and you might end up with a gold one.

If you do remove the paint please post the results, it would be interesting to see what's under there.

[Adrian Stevenson]

Hi Mike, I would say that the paint is original. Are you certain that the "fire-gilt" is just not new untarnished brass that has been exposed by some of the paint flaking off the badge recently?

Cheers, Ade.

[sb98]

Hi Ade.,

I'd have to respectfully disagree with you about the paint being original. It looks way to thick and "gunky" to me.

[Adrian Stevenson]

Hi Tim, I hear what you are saying The paint does look matt in places then glossy in others.

A little test with a bit of acetone won't hurt. But I would not go crazy with paint stripper and wire wool

Cheers, Ade.

[Mike Kenny]

Hi guys,

Thanks for the comments.

I'm got some experience telling the difference between tombak and fire-gilt - you'll have to trust me on that one. I believe the badge has a worn fire-gilt finish under the black. I've been back and double checked in better light and confirmed it, but interestingly enough I've also found traces of what appears to be a SILVER finish as well (obverse only)!!

I'm attaching a larger scan of the obverse. Most of the helmet is worn/darkened tombak but the lower part has worn gilt - looks like someone has already rubbed it with a rough material as the gilt has some light scratching.

If I do decide strip it, I will start on a test spot and don't worry Ade, I had never even considered steel wool!

Regards
Mike

[Mike Kenny]

scan..

[Darrell]

Mike,

If it is Gold, maybe someone "thought" it was a worn black, decided to "repaint" it to an "original" black one?

[paddywhack]

sometime people mess with perfectly good peices and wreck them! i bought a lovely belgiem medal off the estand that had realy nice enamel work on it and lovely fire guilt on it to BUT the twat that had it before the seller had painted the fire guilt parts of the medal a matt gold! the result(?)? the medal looked wreck! well after a bit of TLC i got the paint off and revealed some fantastic detail!! so i reckon you could well be right that that has been painted!! just me 2 cents!

[landsknechte]

If the repaint was period, perhaps it was a "field expedient" method to get someone their black WB with none on hand at the moment.

--Chris

[sb98]

Mike,

Acetone should get all that paint off easily without damaging the metal underneath. Now that we've seen the "before" let's see the "after". Go for it!

[Mike Kenny]

Hi,

I got the camera out and the following image shows the wear and different finishes reasonably well. The high rim on the edge of the helmut shows the worn tombak (darker colour). On the lower side edge of the helmut you can see the brighter fire-gilt finish fairly easily. The black is obvious - why is this protected area not painted black though?! If you look carefully you can also see patches of SILVER mentioned above!

Regards
Mike

[Mike Kenny]

I've used a cotton bud (Q-tio) dipped in acetone on one test area so far. The paint came off easily and I'd estimate 10 or 15 minutes in an acetone "bath" and some gentle toothbrush work would remove the black. Looks like nice gold finish uderneath.

Regards
Mike