Pour le Merite Opinions Please

[Les]

the case isn't good either

The case is wrong also. Rothe made theirs with a tombstone shaped case (rounded on the bottom end). The WWI era cases for known Wagner pieces are different than the long rectangular Ritterkreuz type cases seen on the market in the last 25-20 years. If you do a serach of the archives here, there have been two examples of cases posted in the last 2-3 years. Les

[Les]

Marshall,
Do you think the case is a copy as well, or might it be original?
Does anyone have an opinion on value of Rothe copies?
Thanks all,
Roy

Roy...value for a Rothe copy without the case it came in is currently in the $1200 bracket. The Rothe firm is still is still in business today, and has been in the same location in Vienna, since the middle of the 19th century. Their address can be found on-line, and I suspect if they get enough enquiries about producing another batch of these for the collector market, they might do so...particular in regards to what these things sell for on ebay, and else where. Les

[Brian S]

...and the case couldn't be more wrong.

[medalnet]

...those exist with many different manufacturers punch marks !!!!

[Wild Card]

Forgers

I see a minor point being ignored here. While I understand, but do not condone their practice of making copies, I am shocked that they would go so far as to counterfeit other jeweler’s marks - in this case the Wagner “W”.

When we air our indignities about forgers and question who and where they are, it would seem that sometimes the answer is too obvious. Simply because they operate “in the open” does that make them some how exempt, as opposed to the guy who is turning out fake 1870 EK’s in his kitchen?

[kaiserzeit]

Roy...value for a Rothe copy without the case it came in is currently in the $1200 bracket. The Rothe firm is still is still in business today, and has been in the same location in Vienna, since the middle of the 19th century.

Just an update: The two surviving Rothe sisters retired at the end of 2004 and closed their shop in Vienna. I spoke with one of them in early 2005 and confirmed this. Alas, all of their stock and related goodies have already been auctioned off. Someone may have purchased some of their old dies and be up to no-good, though.

Cheers,

Laurie

[medalnet]

Just an update: The two surviving Rothe sisters retired at the end of 2004 and closed their shop in Vienna. I spoke with one of them in early 2005 and confirmed this. Alas, all of their stock and related goodies have already been auctioned off. Someone may have purchased some of their old dies and be up to no-good, though.

Cheers,

Laurie

That is abolutely correct.

Besides, to see more of those fakes one might want to check the magazines of the OMSA. There was ones an exhibition as well as an article about those fakes showing all different markings. I believe Gordon Arnold wrote it.

[Tim Tezer]

As already mentioned, this type was made by C.F. Rothe in Vienna, at least up to the 1970's. The quality of enamel work on this one is much lower than what I've typically seen on Rothe examples, so maybe it's actually a copy of a Rothe piece - a copy of a copy .

The "W" mark on it has been added, and is therefore completely meaningless, except to indicate that someone is trying to make it out to be something that it's not. Since I've never seen this type of case before, I suspect that the case has been added as well. Not sure where the case came from, but it may have been converted from a case that was originally used for some other jewelry or silverware.

Tim

[RoyA]

Thank you everyone for your help...it's much appreciated
Roy

[Les]

company records?

Just an update: The two surviving Rothe sisters retired at the end of 2004 and closed their shop in Vienna. I spoke with one of them in early 2005 and confirmed this. Alas, all of their stock and related goodies have already been auctioned off. Someone may have purchased some of their old dies and be up to no-good, though.

Cheers,

Laurie

Laurie, by any chance did you ask the sister(s) what they were doing with the company records and files? If there were records of orders from the Austrian (and other governments), production amounts over the years, and so on, there is a great deal of information that could be useful for future research. Les

[Raym']

Just out of interest - did anyone get a look at the one on Jamie Cross Militaria last week? Was it any good? I was really tempted but I just dont trust the guy any more.

[kaiserzeit]

Hi Les,

Sorry, I have been travelling so haven't kept up with my correspondence as much as I should have.

I did ask about any archival material they might have kept but it seems they have disposed of everything.

Hopefully it has been preserved. A pity to think it made it so far to suddenly be lost to history.

Cheers,

Laurie

[Tim Tezer]

Just out of interest - did anyone get a look at the one on Jamie Cross Militaria last week? Was it any good? I was really tempted but I just dont trust the guy any more.

There's one currently on his site for 750 pounds. Unfortunately, it's one of the "Spanish" copies.

Tim

[Raym']

Thanks Tim - I thought there would be some kind of problem with it knowing JC as well as I do!