Marked 1870 EK2s

[Marc Garlasco]

Gents,
What do you make of these? Reissues? The colors on the blowups have been grossly exagerrated to produce clear dates.
Marc




Here is the one on the left:

[Marc Garlasco]

On the right:

[gregM]

Hi Marc,
I don't like the first cross. Maybe it's just the glossy black paint and the "over and under" 8 but it looks off to me.

the 2nd cross-- I am pretty sure that the "short 7" date was attributed
to Godet. Plus if you look at the frame beeding at the inner corners of that cross, I am pretty sure it matches a Godet's frame. I don't know about your makers marks but IMO that is a good Godet EK possibly a 1895 or later replacement piece.

[Daniel Murphy]

The S-W looks good except the paint. Perhaps a crappy repaint of an original piece since the core fits well and does not look to have been disturbed. The other one looks real as well. I have a 1870 KO EK2 that is of the period of wear. Perhaps these are WW1 period replacements, but IMHO real.
Dan Murphy

[gregM]

Tony ( Tiger 1) has a "short7" Godet marked 1870 EK1.
When he gives his blessing I can post some of his pictures as eveidence.

[Biro]

Marc...

Greg is correct in that this 'short 7' variety is perhaps most often seen either unmarked or with some sort of 'Godet' designation...

Here's an example of the same EK2 you posted 2nd on a Godet button...

[Biro]

And a more notable example of this familiar core can be seen on the EK1 worn by Kaiser Wilhelm - which I think from memory you have seen 'in the flesh' Marc...

Below it, the EK1 owned by Tony (Tiger 1) marked 'Godet'.

I also have an identical one and it is also marked 'Godet' as per Tony's...

Marshall

[Biro]

I would generally pass on a maker marked 1870 EK2 (a personal preference...) however in this instance - and for what it's worth - I would be happy to add the example you posted 2nd to my collection.

M

[Marc Garlasco]

Thanks for the help gents! Yes Marshall, I did see the Kaiser's awards - and nice photo setups as always.
Marc

[Doug See]

They made jeweler replacement or collectors' 1870's right on up through 1945 and probably beyond. We've seen catalogues posted in threads on this forum with 1870's still listed for sale in the 1930's. These are probably later pieces, post-1920.

I'm actually thinking about quitting collecting originals and just collecting the various EK fakes which have come out in the last 5 years. There's a much bigger selection of variants. And, the dealers are much more fun to deal with.

[Brian S]

I've been coming back and forth to these for days...

I'm inclined to think post 1914 also. How far past 1914 is anyone's guess but not past 1945. That's what I think...

Nice examples for a collector, for me but I prefer the early issues in any condition. Great to have these in perspective now.

We should match up the marks to marks on 1914 EKII's.

[George Stimson]

"We should match up the marks to marks on 1914 EKII's."

And the reverses.<!-- / message -->

[Biro]

I think it would be of great interest to everyone in this thread if Brian were to post a pic of Lt v Etzels' 1914 EK1... (the S-W with the thin broken core Brian...)

I have pictures saved from the comparison I did on the other forum... but I'll not post them here without your permission.

If Brian is kind enough to do this, you will see just how convoluted a process it is to attempt to date these things with the little we (I) know about them.

I have a theory (naturally ) but I beleive the piece Marc posted second with the 'HB' stamp is not a post '14 piece - or certainly at the very least, has an interesting history which others may wish to expand on....

The first one (S-W), who would know....??

Marshall

[Brian S]

Go ahead and compare. And you're right. That was an EARLY EK1 without question.

Here's the SW on my grandfather's EK1. Probably best MM I've shown of it.

I've no doubt this was a September 1914 or October award as he was thrown into the thick of battle in Belgium on day ONE.

[Brian S]

MM looks like a perfect match to me. Now what about the BACKS of an EKII from SW.