Enamel Prussian/Bavarian/Russian/Oth. States

[Brian S]

It's not about bragging rights, or look what I have, it's about sharing photos to keep my grandfather's memory alive.

I don't handle these items at all. They have resided in one safe deposit box after another through the years. A couple of days last month to take the best photos I could and then back into the darkness and security and controlled environment away from the sunlight.

Please take a look, and let me know what you like or find annoying. The music was a song he found significant so I looped it only once, but if it's too much...

http://www.vonetzel.com/

I'll add more links later but I wanted to distribute large clear photos in lieu of engraving the awards. Ultimately, large clear shots of any piece, all pieces are unique, place the award. No two PlM's are exactly alike, no two RAO's exactly alike. Hand painting, features in the enamel, etc.

I wanted a site to commenurate my grandfather's military life and his awards and military history seem the appropriate direction as they generate the most interest.

Comments welcomed. Constructive criticism most appreciated.

[stevenn]

Thank you for sharing. Very interesting and nice to see such interesting groups. Could you please tell me what marks are on the St. Stanislaw Order. Merry Christmas too!
Steven

[Mike Dwyer]

Brian,

Absolutely fantastic!

I've said in your earlier postings, and in the posting by others on this (and some other forums) who have personal connections to Imperial times, these are the most interesting of everything and anything that anyone could possibly post here. Some people have some great medal, uniform, and pickelhaube collections, but they will never, ever approach the level that having these personal, family items can. I am not exaggerating when I say that these types of postings, by those of you who have real family connections to your collections, tend to make me rather emotional.

God bless you for your love of your grandfather and for your attempts to keep his legacy alive!

[gregM]

Brian,
WELL DONE
and I always enjoy seeing that PLM mini

[haynau]

Brian, really fantastic and beautifull to look at. What a rack of decorations.

One thing i want to add adter visiting your website.

You show two bars. One including austrian and italian peacetime decorations
and a smaller one.

Then you write 'Below is the 1914 - 1918 Medal-bar worn in place of the pre-War bar above. Russian and Italian awards, for example, removed as they were now enemies. Various German state awards simply not worn.'

This can't be true. Both bars show as first decoration the Iron Cross 2nd Class from 1914. So both bars were made after outbreak of WWI. maybe the 'big one' showing the italian crown order was made in the time between being awarded the IC 2nd class and Italys swift to the entente-forces in 1915. The months before italy, once germanys and austrians ally, stayed neutral.

By the way another question: For what action received your ancestor the Red Eagle Order 4th Class with swords and the Crown Order 3rd Class with swords. Whre they given for the boxer-uprising in Cina 1900/01.

regards
haynau

[IMPERIAL QUEST]

I love it-absolutely astounding.

[Brian S]

Brian, really fantastic and beautifull to look at. What a rack of decorations.

One thing i want to add adter visiting your website.

You show two bars. One including austrian and italian peacetime decorations
and a smaller one.

Then you write 'Below is the 1914 - 1918 Medal-bar worn in place of the pre-War bar above. Russian and Italian awards, for example, removed as they were now enemies. Various German state awards simply not worn.'

This can't be true. Both bars show as first decoration the Iron Cross 2nd Class from 1914. So both bars were made after outbreak of WWI. maybe the 'big one' showing the italian crown order was made in the time between being awarded the IC 2nd class and Italys swift to the entente-forces in 1915. The months before italy, once germanys and austrians ally, stayed neutral.

By the way another question: For what action received your ancestor the Red Eagle Order 4th Class with swords and the Crown Order 3rd Class with swords. Whre they given for the boxer-uprising in Cina 1900/01.

regards
haynau

I've pondered this one also. Two possibilities here. One, he won the EKII VERY early in the war and had it put on while still maintaining the original bar. It appears to have been crowded onto his bar. No telling when he did this, early on or later. Postwar, he NEVER wore his medalbar except in that ONE photo which my grandmother forced him into. He ONLY wore his uniform and PlM for a short time into the early thirties and then only the mini-PlM until the start of the war. Then he NEVER wore his uniform again.

St. Stanislaus: Don't have it in hand and will check next time it's in my hands for a maker mark. In all honesty, the details on this award are not very spectacular. The Russian eagles were so beautiful but not so distinguished on this award. Compared to the Austrian awards it's a real disappointment in workmanship.

[stevenn]

From my collection and readings, the two bars are not overly mysterious, but confusing. I have multinational German bars with Italian decorations and with those of the axis nations. Many did not remove their "enemies" awards right away as they had been honestly earned. My favorite group has an Italian medal reversed so Victor Emmanuel's face is not showing. This was done in '30's(!) as a Hindenburg cross is there. A number removed their awards from the German duchies and kingdoms and I was lead to believe this stemmed from the Weimar Rep.'s dislike of all things military, as well as that many of these places ceased to exist as semi-independent states as they had during Imperial times. Most of the duchies lost the ability to present awards and most orders went extinct at this time. With the wacky rules (or lack of them) during Weimar times, it was probable that wearing these awards was against the reg.s for those in the military. Also during this time, those who remained in the forces (also in Austria) took to only wearing a few of their awards, in particular those for bravery in the field. There appeared to be a movement away from the "Christmas Tree " look by the military and veterans. This European "military fashion" of only wearing a few bravery awards to appear more professional and of a more military bearing i.e. the trappings were for those "show-off, tin soldier" types. Also, when combined with populations' attitudes of the time, multiple groups made sense. If you look at the newspapers of the 20's and 30's , there are many nasty cartoons and lampoons of the aimed at the Junkers and at militarism in general.
Pardon the ramble and hope it may be of some use.
Steven

[Les]

Brian, My compliments on the site. Haynau's comment(s) about the presence of the 1914 EKII on both bars, and the fact that the Japanese declared war on Germany in August 1914, and later the Italians in May 1915 suggests certain things about the largest of the two medal bars. The largest, instead of being "pre-war" is likely to have been constructed after the war, using some of your grandfathers pre-war medals (the Italian, Russian, and Japanese medals), with the addition of the EKII and Austrian medal. Obviously, your grandfather did buy duplicate medals of some that he was awarded (the EKII and the RAO in particular) raising the question of which of some of these medals are the original presentation items, or duplicates. The 1930's photo of your grandfather wearing what looks like the same large bar suggests he might have had a new bar (and some extra medals) bought after the war, instead of being "pre-war". BY anychance do you have a copy of his military records from the German archives? Usually, the Soldbuch information is recorded in them and gives the actual dates medalls were authorized/awarded. Again...nice job on the page. Les

[Brian S]

Here's my reasoning for this being a 'pre-war' bar. Firstly, it matches a wedding photo taking the same day he and his division were rushed to the Belgian border, nice timing eh? Secondly, there is no Hidenburg medal on the big bar. Thirdly, look again at that EKII, it really looks like it was crowded on there.

This is NOT the best wedding photo but it's the only one out of a frame that can be copied. My mother has a much more clear larger photo that is behind glass. Try as I have I cannot photo the photo... The glare keeps getting me. It's permanently mounted and I'm not going to take it out of its home for the last 90 years.

This is the best I can do but besides this comparison there are simply no photos of Guenther with the large bar beyond this date. Anything is possible, but I am going with the EKII being added on at "some point", I'm guessing September 1914.

[George Stimson]

Outstanding, Brian! Just great!

[VtwinVince]

Atemberaubend, Brian, congratulations on your site. Don't forget that, as Generalleutnant, he would also have the honorary title of "Excellenz", just as one of my family members, Generalleutnant Georg von Heimburg, had.

[Eagle]

@Brian S:

Can you show me a revers view from the RAO breaststar with a closer look to the needlehook and the open medaillon?

Eagle

[Brian S]

You guys are WAAAY too nice... The music annoyed me and I removed it. I also restructured the site.

The Kaiser sniffed out the site and had some ideas for improvements. Suggested I hide a few bones rather than make them so readily available.