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**Biro** · 10-26-2005, 07:45 AM

2nd - As the core of both the e-stand and Detlevs prinzen is so hard to compare due to parameters beyond my control, I focused more on the frame - and what with the pictures I posted on the previous page together with the image of the reverse below, I feel more than ever that the similarities in the FRAME outweigh any differences mentioned 10 - 1.

I cannot confirm whether the beads evident on the e-stand piece's crown are also there on Detlevs piece, so I wont speculate.

Joe - the beading looks different in some of my comparisons, but the bead count is the same....

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**Biro** · 10-26-2005, 07:50 AM

Interestingly, I've also compared the obverse core of the E-stand EK2 with Detlevs fake EK1 prinzen .... and while I get a MUCH more usable comparison of dates, W's and crown, I feel it's probably pointless to post these because the image quality is still poor enough that a certain degree of 'lateral thinking' is required.... that certainly isn't science and will almost inevitably end up with more speculation being offered where it is impossible to 100% confirm or deny that speculation.

I personally find it unlikely but not impossible that two almost identical fake prinzens exist, utilising the same frame (my opinion) but minutely different cores - and yes folks, in the grand scheme of things, these differences are MINUTE considering that the implication of Ricks observations is that two fake dies must have been made, with all the expense that comes with that....

Suffice to say, if Rick feels that this is DEFINITELY not a match for the Detlev cross, (and he does/did have it in his hands remember) then I cannot debate the point based solely on the pictures we are using - and so I wont.

But equally, the implication from Rick is that the e-stand cross... "does not have the quality I would expect a real one to have" ..... and therefore, that it is not genuine.

Draw your own conclusions on these Prinzens then - and consider also that the onus of originality should not rest solely on the word of Detlev, but also on the quality and frequency with which these particular rarities crop up. I would encourage anyone who happens to find one on ebay, or with a dealer, to post it in this thread so we get some sort of idea by who and how often these are offered.

On that note, and as a quick aside, some of you may remember I purchased a VERY RARE 1914 Weiderholungsspange off ebay recently for only 300 Euro so I could study what I consider to be an outright fake.

The seller of that WHS contacted me a few days ago stating that he had a "nice Prinzen EK1 just listed if I was interested"..... You may be interested to see what that was.. http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.d...tem=6563638659

And not only does he sell stuff, he buys stuff too!!.. http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.d...tem=6555028126

A huge thanks to Rick for his hard work and you all for your input, and while frustrating for it's inconclusive results, I feel we've at least drawn attention to a piece that requires FAR more caution than the average EK.

regards

Marshall

**joe campbell** · 10-26-2005, 11:51 AM

and a large dollop of thanks to you, marshall!

this has been a most interesting thread, and both you and
rick have done a great deal in your dialogue.

great thread!

joe

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