1870 P=G EK2 from eStand, Redux

[stogieman]

Much better scans of Mike's EK2. Note the correct high detail, the correct P=G ribbon, the distinct differences between this cross and the one shown by Detlev Niemann. Have at it.

[stogieman]

Reverse

Of the cross:

[gregM]

Rick,
This might be a dumb question but what do you mean by (P=G ribbon)?

[Brian S]

287 x 403 pixels... come on Rick... You can go higher.

[stogieman]

P=g

P=G is an abbreviation für

Prinzen=Größe

Correct P=G pieces usually came on a reduced format ribbon to reflect the reduced size of the piece itself. This is consistent with all P=G format medals I have handled from EK's to Centennial medals.

[gregM]

thanks

[Biro]

OK- I'll go at it...... but I'm afraid I'll be using the scans of the e-stand piece from the 1st thread 1870 EK2 on eStand! ..... these new ones are barely usable...

[Biro]

1st off - I admit to being unable to see 'distinct differences' to the Niemann fake. Maybe someone could point them out to me.

What I see, is an 1870 prinzengrosse piece which is currently READILY available almost monthly on ebay, available in both 1870 and 1914 era's, in both classes - 1st and 2nd - and I have them currently saved with markings by J Wagner & S., JGuS, 13 Lotig, and unmarked but with crown, moon & 800. It is to my eye identical to the Niemann fake.

To quickly recap, here is the Niemann fake alongside the estand piece.

[Biro]

So how can an 'undisputed' estate aquired piece have the same frame as a relatively modern fake ....?

[Biro]

Perhaps Stogieman or the owner or whoever has the cross currently in hand could confirm or deny that the central cross hatching at the beading junctures matches that of the Detlev fake, and that a small horizontal flaw is evident in both pieces....

[Biro]

Still not convinced...?

What if we compare it to the 1st class version of the Niemann fake..

[Biro]

Same frame....?

[Biro]

Same pattern at the beading junctures..... IMO, same frame.

[Biro]

And finally, a comaprison of the Niemann EK1 prinzen fake with a randomly selected 1st calss prinzen from a dealers website.

This time, I have to rotate the frame 90 degrees..... but I can still make it match..

[Biro]

I'm sorry for the seller and I certainly don't question any ethics here.... but I'm afraid it will take more than 'correct high detail' and a prinzen size ribbon to convince me this is not one of the current prolific fakes that Niemann has pointed out....

But I'm certainly open to persuasion.....


regards

Marshall