Help needed!

[SiPo]

Hi all,
This may be a silly question but I am afraid I know nothing whatsoever about WW1 decorations. I have a wehrpass to an officer who had the following decorations;
1. Military Medal of Merit in Gold
2. Wilhelmskreuz with swords
3. Gold medal of the Red Eagle Order
4. EKII
5. Bavarian Military Order of Merit with swords 4th class

I would like to know the following;
a. Is this combination common, rare or just interesting?
b. Would this combination be regarded as highly decorated?
c. Would they have been awarded for gratitude, bravery or for campaign type service?
d. What states awarded these and in what numbers?

Your help will be greatfully received.
G

[SiPo]

Help Needed

Please!!!!!

G

[JensF.]

Can you post pictures of the Wehrpass or the real german names of the medals?

[SiPo]

Can you post pictures of the Wehrpass or the real german names of the medals?

Hi Jens,

Unfortunately I cannot post pic's of the pass at present. However, I will try to decipher the writing as best I can. When I purchased the pass, there was a small bit of paper containing a list of the awards written in English. I am not sure about the words followed by (?), but the writing appears to be:

i) Goldene Militarverdienstmedaille
ii) Wilhelmskreuz uns(?) schw(?)
iii) Goldene Rote Adler-(?)
iv) E.K. zweiter kl
v) Bay'r Mil.Verd.Ord. 4 kl uns(?) schw(?)

Hope this helps and many thanks for taking the time to reply.
G

[Gerd Becker]

Hi Jens,

Unfortunately I cannot post pic's of the pass at present. However, I will try to decipher the writing as best I can. When I purchased the pass, there was a small bit of paper containing a list of the awards written in English. I am not sure about the words followed by (?), but the writing appears to be:

i) Goldene Militarverdienstmedaille
ii) Wilhelmskreuz uns(?) schw(?)
iii) Goldene Rote Adler-(?)
iv) E.K. zweiter kl
v) Bay'r Mil.Verd.Ord. 4 kl uns(?) schw(?)

Hope this helps and many thanks for taking the time to reply.
G

Its hard to say without additional data about the awardee. Nr. 1 could be the Bavarian Golden Military Merit Medal, which would definately be something special, as there were not very much awards in Gold of this Medal.

Nr. 2, the Wilhelmskreuz with swords was awarded from Württemberg.
Nr. 3, is probably not "Goldene Rote-Adler"(still can be the Medal to the Red-Eagle-Order), but an Order of the Red-Eagle, probably 4th class.
Nr. 4 is the Prussian Iron Cross 2nd class
and Nr. 5 would be the Bavarian Military Merit Order 4th class with swords.

Thats all, i can say for sure about this list.

best,
Gerd

[JensF.]

Nr. 1 sounds like the Golden Military Merit Medal also from Württemberg. Maybe Nr 3. is the "Goldene Roter Adler Ordens-Medaille"; maybe he was from Württemberg and they didn't knew the correct prussian name of that award. However there was also a Silver Medal for the Red Eagle Order which was the same grade of medal but the earlier type. The last type was in gilt bronze. I read sometimes strange and not correct or official names for awards in Wehrpässe...

[SiPo]

Thanx JensF,

Here is some additional info that could be of help. The officer concerned was born in Aschersleben (?). He joined the military on 12/10/1899 (2nd Battery Fieldartillery Regt. 65). Promoted to Gefrieter 1/10/1900, Unteroffizier 1/10/1901, and became Lieutenant of Artillery 5/9/1914.

I hope this helps identify the medals. Also, are there any books or websites regarding his unit and its actions written in English for me to look at?

G

[torstenbel]

Thanx JensF,

Here is some additional info that could be of help. The officer concerned was born in Aschersleben (?). He joined the military on 12/10/1899 (2nd Battery Fieldartillery Regt. 65). Promoted to Gefrieter 1/10/1900, Unteroffizier 1/10/1901, and became Lieutenant of Artillery 5/9/1914.

I hope this helps identify the medals. Also, are there any books or websites regarding his unit and its actions written in English for me to look at?

G

Aschersleben is in East Germany, near the city of Magdeburg and near the Harz mountains. The state it is in today is Sachsen-Anhalt, which did not exist pre-1945. At the time your man was born it would have been in Prussia...Cheers, Torsten.

[SiPo]

Aschersleben is in East Germany, near the city of Magdeburg and near the Harz mountains. The state it is in today is Sachsen-Anhalt, which did not exist pre-1945. At the time your man was born it would have been in Prussia...Cheers, Torsten.

A big thank you to a fellow Scouser!

Well, I am even more confused now than I was when I first posted this thread! I never realised that WW1 German states/decorations was so complicated.

From what I understand, my chap has been awarded medals from Bavaria, Wurttemberg, and Prussia. Is this normal?
I also understand that the Gold medal might be from either Wurttemberg OR Bavaria, and one is more rare than the other. Therefore, the key must lie with the unit he joined. Does anybody know if the 2nd Battery, Fieldartillery Regt. 65 was a Prussian, Wurttemberg or Bavarian unit?

I must admit, my first 'foray' into the imperial section has so far been rather exciting!

G

[Kurt Doench]

4. Württembergisches Feldartillerie-Regiment Nr. 65, set up in 1899, HQ at Ludwigsburg. Last peacetime order of battle: 26. Feldartillerie-Brigade (HQ Ludwigsburg), 27. Division (Ulm), XIII. Armeekorps (Stuttgart).

Regards, Karl

Therefore, the key must lie with the unit he joined. Does anybody know if the 2nd Battery, Fieldartillery Regt. 65 was a Prussian, Wurttemberg or Bavarian unit?

[SiPo]

4. Württembergisches Feldartillerie-Regiment Nr. 65, set up in 1899, HQ at Ludwigsburg. Last peacetime order of battle: 26. Feldartillerie-Brigade (HQ Ludwigsburg), 27. Division (Ulm), XIII. Armeekorps (Stuttgart).

Regards, Karl

Thanx Karl,
Very helpful. I now suspect the Gold medal is of Wurttemberg issue. Would this combination of medals make a Wurttemberger a highly decorated individual or are they run of the mill?

G