Interesting Ribbon Bar with Bavarian "Beamtenband"

[webr55]

Hello all,

I just got this in, and I think it's quite a nice piece. It also puzzles me in more than one way. Ok, slowly. We have:
1) EK2 1914
2) Bavarian Military Merit Order (Cross??) 4th class w/ crown am 'Beamtenband'
3) Hindenburg
4) Bavarian 1905 or 1911 Jubilee
5) ?????
6) Bavarian unofficial 1918 Golden Wedding Jubilee medal

What baffles me:
- I have no idea what ribbon no. 5 is. I guess some unofficial Bavarian (dynastic?) thing?
- What sort of guy are we looking at? Much depends on whether No. 2 is the Order or the Cross. An official, certainly. But what rank? Officer or not?
- Why no long service?
- This seems to be a 100% loyal Bavarian. Why this non-Bavarian style? Why the sew-on style?

Regards
Chris

[webr55]

The back:

[stogieman]

Prince Ruprecht Medal

That is the ribbon for the bavarian prince Ruprecht's Medal. Rather hard to find!

[webr55]

Thanks!
About the BMVO on Beamtenband: According to Autengruber, there were only 112 BMVO4 with crown and swords on Beamtenband awarded. Hm...

[landsknechte]

The sew-on style isn't all that uncommon for Bavarians...









#1 is a Bavarian Freiherr with what I suspect to be fairly heavy royalist leanings, and yes #2 and #3 are two separate ribbon bars.

--Chris

P.S.
webr55... Does he list award numbers for other grades of that decoration on that ribbon?

[webr55]

Ahhh! Thanks Chris, now I remember some of your bars. Sew-on, indeed!
And now, suddenly, seeing your bars, something else becomes clear... the officer-or-not-question is resolved!
Sometimes you overlook the most basic things! Know what I mean?

[landsknechte]

Ahhh! Thanks Chris, now I remember some of your bars. Sew-on, indeed!
And now, suddenly, seeing your bars, something else becomes clear... the officer-or-not-question is resolved!
Sometimes you overlook the most basic things! Know what I mean?

Heaven knows I've put enough pictures of that pair of bars out there in my potenially futile quest to figure out what ribbon in 6th place is.

If I recall correctly, Bavarian officers wouldn't have long service ribbons until they hit 24+ years.

--Chris

[webr55]

If I recall correctly, Bavarian officers wouldn't have long service ribbons until they hit 24+ years.

--Chris

Exactly! Mine must be an official's bar with OFFICER rank. He was in the army at least in 1911, when the 2nd issue of the Jubilee was done. So if he had been an NCO, he would definitely have got at least the IX years medal. Which means.... mine is indeed one of 112.

[webr55]

Or is it?

On second thought, maybe this conclusion jumps too far. Maybe he got a BMVK as an NCO still, maybe as an Unterzahlmeister. Then he was commissioned just before getting his IX...
I wish a voice would speak to me! Please, if you're out there....!

[stogieman]

well.......

...... could be either officer, or reserve nco. Absence of a long service, he's most likely an officer as only career guys who volunteered received jubilee medals. The Ruprecht is a post-1918 "royalist" award... There's been a spate of them that showed up this year... I believe a collection in Germany was broken up about 2 months back. Here's the bars that match yours! Same guy, and I believe the same source as yours. You were just a bit quicker :

[webr55]

!!

Is that the same guy? So he got a long service after all?? Howzat?
Well, the first bar indicates he became a Wehrmacht official. 18-24 years of service - he should have been a Reichsheer official already. Couldn't this be .... well... traceable?
Thanks in any case for showing!!

[webr55]

Chris,
sorry, I overlooked your question about award numbers. Autengruber gives these for awards on war merit ribbon:

Grand Cross: 3
Grand Cross with swords: 2
1st class: 1
1st class with swords: 2
2nd class: 7
2nd class with swords: 22
2nd class with star: 3
2nd class with star and swords: 9
2nd class star with swords: 1

3rd class with crown: 10
3rd class with crown and swords: 19
3rd class: 17
3rd class with swords: 36

4th class with crown: 59
4th class with crown and swords: 112
4th class: 170
4th class with swords: 544

No numbers for the cross, though.

[webr55]

New idea

Look at this: The last ribbon on my bar seems a little 'frayed'. Could it be that there was another one behind that was torn off? Maybe there was a long service after all??

[landsknechte]

Look at this: The last ribbon on my bar seems a little 'frayed'. Could it be that there was another one behind that was torn off? Maybe there was a long service after all??

Probably not, unless the construction of yours is different than mine. All of mine have a ribbon of some sort that all the other ribbons are wrapped around, providing a foundation of the bar (essentially serving the same purpose as the metal backing plate on most bars). I'd expect to see some of the material from that inner ribbon frayed or otherwise visible if a ribbon had been removed from the end of the bar. If it is visible, and just doesn't show in the photo, then that might just be what you've got.

--Chris

P.S.
Thanks for the award numbers, BTW.

[webr55]

ok, good point. It is frayed, but if something had been torn off, there should also be some material of the lost ribbon left.