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**Mike Dwyer** · 06-26-2005, 08:16 AM

Originally posted by Peter Wiking

Help. I am new in collecting these crosses. Is it real? Can i trust this seller? The cross looks old with markings and all. Must be real?http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...sPageName=WDVW

Peter

This seller and the fake 1870 crosses have been discussed many other times on this forum. Go to http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...hlight=dedub67 for one of the threads about dedub67.

**Peter Wiking** · 06-26-2005, 09:18 AM

Thanks Mike. I know about this cross and seller

Just pulling your legs a bit. Does not hurt to keep people on the alert.

Cheers.
Peter

**gregM** · 06-26-2005, 09:27 AM

When ever I see one of those crosses, I have the urge to start singing.

Lets all sing along-------
"The muffin man, The muffin man, Oh do you know the muffin man--------

Come on kids, sing along

**Peter Wiking** · 06-26-2005, 09:28 AM

The muffin man, The muffin man...

Cheers.
Peter

**Mike Dwyer** · 06-26-2005, 09:49 AM

Originally posted by Peter Wiking

Thanks Mike. I know about this cross and seller

Just pulling your legs a bit. Does not hurt to keep people on the alert.

Cheers.
Peter

Peter,

Sorry, I was still half asleep and didn't realize you were kidding!

**coastie** · 06-26-2005, 11:48 AM

Obivously our "dear little seller" didn't take any of the discoussions we had with her on this forum to heart. She is still trying to sucker a sucker into buying her fakes with a "buy it now" for $210.00!

**coastie** · 06-26-2005, 11:53 AM

Oh Gee, too bad, some un-suspecting bidder made a bid, cancelling the "buy it now" option.

**Doug See** · 06-28-2005, 10:20 AM

Stay away from this seller. He/she knowingly sells fakes without describing them as such, so as to fool and defraud collectors who may not be experts. Bad news. Not quite as bad as Middle Eastern terrorists, but ripping off Americans while hiding behind a computer is a cowardly form of terrorism just the same.

**torstenbel** · 06-28-2005, 10:28 AM

Originally posted by Peter Wiking

Help. I am new in collecting these crosses. Is it real? Can i trust this seller? The cross looks old with markings and all. Must be real?http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...sPageName=WDVW

Peter

**torstenbel** · 06-28-2005, 10:29 AM

Originally posted by Doug See

. Not quite as bad as Middle Eastern terrorists, but ripping off Americans while hiding behind a computer is a cowardly form of terrorism just the same.

same goes for non-Americans being ripped off...

I am German...

Cheers, Torsten.

PS: Someone (identity kept privat of course) paid US$167+ for this http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tem=6535091465 just have a look at her past completed auctions on ebay...

**Doug See** · 06-28-2005, 02:32 PM

Originally posted by torstenbel

same goes for non-Americans being ripped off...

I am German...

Cheers, Torsten.

PS: Someone (identity kept privat of course) paid US$167+ for this http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tem=6535091465 just have a look at her past completed auctions on ebay...

Ooops, you are right Torsten. She DOES sell internationally. You know, I'm only being partly tongue-in-cheek there. I'm far from perfect, so I hate to sound like I'm on a high horse, but eBay fraud can be considered a form of terrorism, minus only the murder. Terrorists seek to harm national, local, and personal financial systems as part of their cowardly hit and run tactics. A seller hiding behind a computer who systematically and knowingly sells copies made to decieve without describing them as repros is harming individuals' and families by deceving them into taking their money. Same thing---theft by deception vs. theft by taking or theft by destruction. In my opinion, ripping off people with fakes is a cowardly and low-down activity; as cowardly as any Middle Eastern fanatic who seeks to take or destroy things. Starting an auction at $9.99 or offerring a b*llsh*t 5 day return policy is no justification. These items are so "good" they can and HAVE deceived many a collector into think they are real. And many original, valuable items are started on eBay for $9.99 because the sellers know they are such an attractive and rare piece that they will be bid up to market value. So, to crooks who sell fakes, list them under the historical period section on eBay, and don't divulge that they are copies, I say: Next time you are watching the evening news (in the US) and find yourself being shocked and angered by terrorist activity here or abroad, big companies that rip off their shareholders, or you start complaining about illegal aliens, don't get above your raisin'!! STOP and think...which way is the smoke really blowing? You may discover you've got something in common with those same folks.

**VtwinVince** · 06-28-2005, 03:18 PM

Doug, I don't want to hijack this thread, but what exactly do you mean by "Middle Eastern fanatics"? That is a highly prejudicial statement which you might want to withdraw. I've travelled widely in the Middle East, and have found the people there to be kind, courteous and welcoming, unlike many of your countrymen, who could just as validly be quantified as "North American fanatics" in light of recent actions in that part of the world. Just putting your shoe on the other foot, so to speak.

**Doug See** · 06-28-2005, 04:45 PM

Originally posted by VtwinVince

Doug, I don't want to hijack this thread, but what exactly do you mean by "Middle Eastern fanatics"? That is a highly prejudicial statement which you might want to withdraw. I've travelled widely in the Middle East, and have found the people there to be kind, courteous and welcoming, unlike many of your countrymen, who could just as validly be quantified as "North American fanatics" in light of recent actions in that part of the world. Just putting your shoe on the other foot, so to speak.

There are United States, Canadian, and Middle Eastern fanatics, don't you agree? Fanatics and crooks are what they are, no matter where. Sorry, I don't want to participate a political discussion here. I stand by my comment; you're entitled to your opinion.

.

**pfrost** · 06-28-2005, 05:04 PM

Originally posted by VtwinVince

Doug, I don't want to hijack this thread, but what exactly do you mean by "Middle Eastern fanatics"? That is a highly prejudicial statement which you might want to withdraw. I've travelled widely in the Middle East, and have found the people there to be kind, courteous and welcoming, unlike many of your countrymen, who could just as validly be quantified as "North American fanatics" in light of recent actions in that part of the world. Just putting your shoe on the other foot, so to speak.

Of course, thanks to the "North American Fanatics" the known eBay sellers SadamIAm, 82ndQusay, and BagdadWMD are no longer selling stuff (although clearly that seller may have been a shill). Yet, sadly we still have Chiracs_Stuff, Axiss-O-Evil666, and TheUngratefullEuro'sAttic to deal with

!

BTW, I to have traveled the world and would rate my fellow countrymen second to none on the scale of kindness, generosity and selflessness, ESPECIALLY in light of recent actions. But I can only call them the way I see them.

Respectfully,

P. Frost

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