Prussian General about 1850s

[saschaw]

Does anyone know this guy?

He seems to be a Prussian General from about 1850,
wearing the star to the Read Eagle order 1st class ...

http://www.directupload.net/show_ima...n=h59MsL9y.jpg

Could please anyone put the picture into this thread?

[rexmundi]

Here's the pic

[saschaw]

Here's the pic

Thanks a lot ...

[mravery]

Hello all,

I could be wrong... but I think he is a little earlier than 1850..... I'm thinking more around the Napoleonic period...

Cheers
Mark

[David Müldner]

checkin the period

Maybe you can check the period at this site:

www.uniforminsignias.net I find it very usefull just click Europe- former states and then prussia

David

Hello all,

I could be wrong... but I think he is a little earlier than 1850..... I'm thinking more around the Napoleonic period...

Cheers
Mark

[Mike Dwyer]

Small error on the site location. I tried it and it wouldn't work. It should read www.uniforminsignia.net

[GdC26]

Small error on the site location. I tried it and it wouldn't work. It should read www.uniforminsignia.net

I could be way off the mark here, but could our friend be Iwan Paskiewitsch, Graf von Eriwan? See page 24 of "Mythos Marschallstab". The epaulettes do not strike me as Prussian military and on the basis of the picture shown in the Mythos book and a quick Goggle search, could be Russian.

Based on the biography in the Mythos book Paskiewitsch rose to the rank of Generalmajor in the Russian Imperial Army by 1809, and to the rank of Prussian and Austrian Generalfeldmarschall in 1850. He received the Black Eagle Order, and no doubt other Prussian orders as well.

But even if it is not Paskiewitsch, I think the Russian connection may be worth exploring. Uniform and epaulettes seem to match those of the one or two other Russian generalof the same era I spotted during the Google search, and so, it seems, do the aguilettes with their slightly oval crowns. None of the pics I have seen are in colour, so I cannot say whether silver fittings would be appropriate for a Russian general´s tunic from after 1810, as seems to be indiated by the red eagle (silver star, not cloth: Nimmergut, Vol II, p. 806).

Hope this is of use,
GdC26

[GdC26]

I could be way off the mark here, but could our friend be Iwan Paskiewitsch, Graf von Eriwan? See page 24 of "Mythos Marschallstab". The epaulettes do not strike me as Prussian military and on the basis of the picture shown in the Mythos book and a quick Goggle search, could be Russian.

Based on the biography in the Mythos book Paskiewitsch rose to the rank of Generalmajor in the Russian Imperial Army by 1809, and to the rank of Prussian and Austrian Generalfeldmarschall in 1850. He received the Black Eagle Order, and no doubt other Prussian orders as well.

But even if it is not Paskiewitsch, I think the Russian connection may be worth exploring. Uniform and epaulettes seem to match those of the one or two other Russian generalof the same era I spotted during the Google search, and so, it seems, do the aguilettes with their slightly oval crowns. None of the pics I have seen are in colour, so I cannot say whether silver fittings would be appropriate for a Russian general´s tunic from after 1810, as seems to be indiated by the red eagle (silver star, not cloth: Nimmergut, Vol II, p. 806).

Hope this is of use,
GdC26

Have a look at this link for a biography and pic of Paskiewitsch.
GdC26

http://www.napoleon-series.org/resea...paskevich.html

[Mike Dwyer]

There might be a possiblity that the old man is Ivan Feodorovich Paskevich, but it's very difficult to tell from the two paintings. One of the things I'm concerned about though is the epaulettes and braid on his uniform. In the painting in this thread all of the metallic items are silver. In the painting of Paskevich they are gold. If the painting was of Paskevich as an old man he's probably a field marshal by then and I believe all of his buttons, braid, epaulettes, etc. would be gold as a Russian. The Prussian generals used silver didn't they? I can very well be wrong, but I believe our mystery general is wearing a Prussian uniform.

[GdC26]

There might be a possiblity that the old man is Ivan Feodorovich Paskevich, but it's very difficult to tell from the two paintings. One of the things I'm concerned about though is the epaulettes and braid on his uniform. In the painting in this thread all of the metallic items are silver. In the painting of Paskevich they are gold. If the painting was of Paskevich as an old man he's probably a field marshal by then and I believe all of his buttons, braid, epaulettes, etc. would be gold as a Russian. The Prussian generals used silver didn't they? I can very well be wrong, but I believe our mystery general is wearing a Prussian uniform.

Hi Mike,
Based on Pietsch, Uniformierungsgeschichte (which I don't have handy right now) and a few paintings I looked I'd say Prussian general's tunics of the early 1800's had golden embroidery, with golden buttons (until around 1815 at least, in a double row). The epaulettes were silver, as you say, but with flat moons, not the elaborate pattern shown in the painting. And the collar golden embroidery shown in the Pietsch book simply does not match the one shown in the painting. Aguilettes, if memory serves, where gold, not silver as shown in the pics.

But my guess is as good as yours. Will dig into Pietsch a bit further and see what gives. Will also look into Nimmergut again to see when the swords to the RAO 1st class breast star where introduced.
Regards,
GdC26

[Mike Dwyer]

Hi Mike,
Prussian general's tunics of the early 1800's had golden embroidery, with golden buttons (until around 1815 at least, in a double row). The epaulettes were silver, as you say, but with flat moons, not the elaborate pattern shown in the painting.
Regards,
GdC26

Hi, GdC26,

You are of course, correct! I don't know where my mind was, Prussian generals used gold embroidery until 1918 and then German generals have used gold ever since then. Perhaps he's some type of general adjutant?

[GdC26]

Hi, GdC26,

You are of course, correct! I don't know where my mind was, Prussian generals used gold embroidery until 1918 and then German generals have used gold ever since then. Perhaps he's some type of general adjutant?

Hi Mike,

According to Pietsch, generaladjutanten wore gold fittings. Silver would be correct for a general a la suite, but it would not eplain the unusual boards, and furthermore would datethe picture after the AKO of 3 june 1853 which according to Pietsch, introduced the special uniform for Generals a la Suite.

If our friend is not Russian, he may be from another German state. I have seen a pic of one of the Kings of Württemberg who wore epaulettes with a stepped border like those evident in hte painting. Helmut Weitze has a pair of Württemberg general´s board from around 1850 that have te stepped border. But without a bit of further research, I would not know whether Württemberg general´s tunics of the first half of the 19th century would have silver fittings.

Another possibility that occured to me is that our friend might be a highranking military official (the ornate border of the boards would be consistent with that, the aguilettes and collar probably would not).

None closer to a solution, hey, but I am sure we will get there, eventually, before the century is over

Cheers,
GdC26

[Eric Gaumann]

What's with the rouge? Or did he spend his life out on the field with sunglasses on and his hat pulled down low?

[David Müldner]

Is it just me or does our general really have such a familiar face? I know I probably did not but italmost seems that I have seen him somewhere before. I will just to be sure check my small collection ofkurhessian Generals to see whetherthe board could mean he is from here.

What's with the rouge? Or did he spend his life out on the field with sunglasses on and his hat pulled down low?

[saschaw]

What's with the rouge? Or did he spend his life out on the field with sunglasses on and his hat pulled down low?

In original, it is not that red; only the picture ist ...

Thanks to all of you for helping ..

Why does this guy not wear all his awards?
It would be much easier, wouldn't it?