Medal remounting service on German medal groups

[Klaus O.]

Man!!

I didn't know that it existed also this type of service... you will provide this guy with the medals and I will put them together for you... Incredible!

Link: http://www.worldmedals.co.uk/Rib/rem.htm

Have you already seen it?

Ciao,

Claudio

[WNickel]

horribly

Hi Claudio,

incredible..... but true. Neal O'Connor, a known air force collector, shows such bars from famous german airmen (WWI) in his books.

It's okay to documented this, but otherwise.......

he should publish at his webside or pretend all his tinkered bars...I shake my old, grey head....

Werner

[Rick Research]

It's not as bad as all that. Mr. Woolley does excellent work-- but using BRAND NEW ribbons. These cannot be mistaken for old silk originals, and of course fluoresce electric blue under blacklight.

For display purposes-- and ONLY when No Original Bars Or Ribbons Are Harmed (you know how fiercely I feel about THAT! moremad ) this is OK.

My friend the late Neal O'Connor never harmed any original bars either. He spent years gathering loose individual medals to recreate his groups for display in his museum in New Jersey. Shortly before his death, he donated his entire lifetime's collection of WW1 aviation material back to each country of origin (it would have been nice if this could have happened with the Siebentritt collection too, alas!) and all the German items are now in a museum in Berlin.

Not too many gray hairs I hope Werner-- you are only 5 months older than me!

[Klaus O.]

Werner,

I have got a couple of O'Connor's books about German airmen during WWI. They are very informative. On these books at the end are some reconstruction of famous airmen's medals bars. Although they surely look impressive the mounting is not so clean and perfect and that's quite good like that!

Is he using original medals, also because I don't think that all WWI medals are being faked... or at least I hope so!

Ciao,

Claudio

[Rick Research]

No, the medals are original-- the medal bar and ribbons are new.

Luckily, nobody is as fussy about how "perfect" things should be as us, though I do know that Mr. Woolley will mount very precisely to match a photograph.

If I had, say, a Wehrmacht general's named parade tunic and no way to obtain his own original medal bar, even assuming it still existed, let alone the way family and dealers now split things up for more cash, I would want to be able to make a proper DISPLAY set, if I could.

It drives me crazy when I see wrong ribbon bars on tunics in reference books.

There is, of course, a difference between careful and personal making of a specific set of display medals (our Daniel Cole did a commendable job trying to make his own von Richthofen bar, difficult and expensive as that is) and the mass produced crap now flooding the market with things like junior NCOs 18 medal bars on eCrap and the Usual Places. Those are intended to deceive the feeble-minded (I especially liked the bar with what, 22 medals, that would have had to be worn straight down from armpit to knee! ) and must, by their sheer numbers, mean many small, "boring" but original bars are being "slaughtered" like baby seals to manufacture-- garbage! moremad moremad

[WNickel]

old - older - bar-collector

Good morning Rick,

I am older than you....with a leg in the grave.

I can not find your birthday!!!!! 5 month!!!! February!!!! maybe february, 29????, but not in 1957, it is more difficult than find out the wearer of a bar.

Werner

[stogieman]

An example

This is the workmanship of Mr. Wooley, whom I highly recommend! Original medals, bar made to match a foto, group now with Mike H. in Cornwall. We shall let him expand on the recipient.

[stogieman]

And the recipient

Photo used to construct the bar:

[Mike Dunn]

Humm--interesting. I guess it is great that someone can make Repro Medal bars with new ribbons. Also nice to know that they use new ribbons--I hope we all have black lights--But if this person continues to re-make or make up such nice looking medal bars--why the heck can't he put a tag or mark on it to let someone know that it is not a original item. Someone is going to be fooled by one of these. We bitch and complain about all the fakes--well--this is just another great looking one to me. Mike

[Bill M]

--I agree with your point, Mike. I also see everyone else's, but I personally don't think that this should be done.

[Dez H]

Yep I totally agree Mike, Bill personally I don’t think this should be done at all. It is like messing with history. However if this chap wants to do this, why not put a little tag on the back, sewn into the backing. This would also advertise his “workmanship.” State something like reproduction medal bar produced c…whatever.


Regards

Dez

[stogieman]

Hey Guys,

There is NO-WAY anyone, even a newbie, can mistake "glow in the dark" synthetic ribbons for original, period ribbons. The Saxon group I have shown here for Mike H., is all a group, that originally came from Detlev Niemann. Group consisted of all 4 original decorations, a photograph and the Observer's Badge. I took it upon myself to remount the group, as IMO, I was preserving this man's history. The medals are clipped into the bar, not sewn in, so they can be removed at anytime. I must disagree with your assessment of "just another great-looking fake". We are talking preservation here, not restoration. There is a difference. Some of you commenting adversely thought it was a great idea on another group, not all that long ago. Revisit the "to Preserve and Protect" thread.

[Daniel Cole]

Mr. Woolley has made several reconstructed medal bars for me to represent bars of officers in photos, one was von Richthofens, one Ernst Juenger and one was an unknown officer in an obscure regiment. I used original medals that were singles, not from destroyed bars. The Richthofen bar has been destroyed and the individual decorations sold. The other ones were clearly stated by me to the buyer that they were remounted groups. I personnal think this is a way of preserving history. If I had relatives who had earned these awards I wouldn't hesitate to have the groups rebuilt. To say this is fraud, one must have intent to defraud. I have since sold my entire collection. I support Mr. Woolley's efforts and I'm glad there is someone with his character out there who makes this service available. No everyone in this hobby has evil intentions.

[Rick Research]

Here is a bar which I personally made years ago (at excessive effort and multiple needle related injuries!) which was obtained years ago from manion's described as "II-" condition, when it was actually "IV-." The ribbons were splotched and rust stained and splitting asunder, the backing had rotten to a decayed mess. I did not send it back as grotesquely mis-represented since the price I paid was reasonable (THOSE were the days! ) enough for what the four medals without ribbons would have been.

I was extremely disappointed, since I had hoped to be getting a nice rare noncombatant EK group, but this was in practically ground dug condition-- except the medals themselves were fine.

[Rick Research]

That is not scanner discoloration in the pathetic remnants-- the last ribbon really IS pink stained, the splotches and tears are as "in the flesh." The reverses are even worse. I would never have attempted to do anything with a bar in better condition--of course!!!--but this one was Utter Rubbish condition. The backing was held on only by the pin, and the ribbons only by being rusted to the metal backing plate.

I very carefully made paper templates of the EXACT way the original rotted away ribbons were folded and precisely remounted this to return it to its original appearance. The ribbons are of course brand new and all the white glows electric blue.

It LOOKS exactly as it did when it was new, but cannot be mistaken for old. I saved every bit of the original tatters, and when I sold this bar to a friend who wanted it for display, it was sold AS a display. He has the original parts.

Would it have been "kinder" to have left it in Garbage condition? Would any of you have WANTED it in its original condition? I think we all know what it's fate would have been-- medals yanked off and all else discarded, thrown away. Rather than restored. Because like you all, I have passed over such pathetic, grubby "exhumed" looking bars at shows.

Of course--absolutely-- I would NEVER do this for ANY reason to ANY bar that was not in as bad "ground dug" sort of condition as this. Never. You all know that. This is the only one I have ever done. The effort and time was such that I will never do it again-- which means all those other "IV-" condiion scraps out there are... well, if not in MY collection-- in any of yours?