EK2 1870 - please opinion

[Miro O]

Buy the item not the story.

So far the only stories posted here were your ones about cheap 1870ers, S&Ls with A type core and transcendental agreement with Greg.

But OK, let´s play this game. Eryk, I see you here, can you please post the picture of the frame soldering? The edge is the third side of the cross, shouldn´t be omitted here. Maybe someone will explain us, how such perfectly soldered and handfinished cross can be a fake. Probably it was soldered long before it became a fake in 2020s. That´s the only reasonable explanation.

[Dansson]

I stand with Miro here. I see nothing wrong with this 1870.

[Eryk]

Hello
First of all, thank you very much for your opinions and professional discussion. That's a lot of knowledge. I am posting a picture.
greetings

[kid74]

If I remember correctly, you are interested mainly in S&L type of EK2 1870. But on 30. 10. 2016, I posted you pictures of straight-framed EK2 with A-type core. It was painted variant with just a crack at the second arch of the reverse crown. The hump was smaller due to slim outer cut of the frame. But it was a cross from the same family as this one.

They are really similar. BUT not identical (IMO).

WR Kirill

[Willi Z.]

They are really similar. BUT not identical (IMO).

WR Kirill

Unless I missed something, Miro did not say they were identical, but rather similar. So, I am having a tough time trying to figure out what the point is.

[gregM]

I don't see any issues with this cross. IMO it is just as Miro described.
A jubilee era Type A core Ek2. Soft details in the core are common on
the later crosses. The frame is not the early Godet or Wagner style frame
so it was most likely assembled by one of the many unknown cross makers
trying to fill the demand caused by the increased patriotism of the 1895
Jubilee era.

[morel5000]

If it was a jubilee piece I expected a 25 years oakleaf to the bar.
That makes the dating of the 1890’s and not calling it a jubilee but a low quality spangenstuck convinient.

Is it possible to give the dimensions and a pic of the soldering?
Anayone have seen this frame before? AnD I know not seeing this type before doesn’t make it a fake, however it doesn’t help with this piece either.

Why not put it on estand and avoid all the additional fees?

[Miro O]

If it was a jubilee piece I expected a 25 years oakleaf to the bar.
That makes the dating of the 1890’s and not calling it a jubilee but a low quality spangenstuck convinient.

There are three possible explanations:

1. Jubilee oaks were not an awarded items, had to be privately purchased and paid by veteran himself. Not all veterans decided to buy the oaks from whatever reason. Honestly, this is an explanation with very low possibility to happen, but should be mentioned.

2. The EK on the bar could be replaced. It is that type of bar, where you can replace awards easily. But I have no reason to think this happened. According to my experience and knowledge, it seems very plausible to see such EK on such bar. In any case, this EK came on the bar and will go with this bar. Or do you think separate selling is a more collector-friendly option?

3. Year 1895 was only a climax of jubilee celebrations, not a start of them. Celebrations always start before the jubilee date, not at or after it. And, just by the way, in 1890, there was also a jubilee - 20 years from Franco-Prussian war. There are really many reasons to think that raised demand for replacement EKs and bars can be dated well before 1895.

It is six years from 1890 to 1895 inclusive, why should this be any suspicious to date some piece to 1890s and before issuing of 25 oaks? This is what this bar clearly says. Or should I add there oaks to make someone happy?

Is it possible to give the dimensions and a pic of the soldering?
Anayone have seen this frame before? AnD I know not seeing this type before doesn’t make it a fake, however it doesn’t help with this piece either.

Roughly 42,2 mm. I have only a simple ruler. The pictures of the frame soldering were already posted. When I have a time, I will find the way how to post those of jumpring soldering as well.

Why not put it on estand and avoid all the additional fees?

The selection of selling place is a question of personal preference and subject for long discussion. Pure appearance on ebay doesn´t make any piece questionable.

But apart from personal preferences, please read the auction description carefully. Starting from May 15, I can not ship to USA and Canada. With only a few exceptions, I can ship only to Europe. Why I should offer an item on American forum, when I can not ship there?

[Eryk]

I'm adding one more picture of jumpring soldering

best regards
Maciej

[morel5000]

I am confused, is this the thread starter cross from Miro or is it another one from Maciej?

[Eryk]

I am confused, is this the thread starter cross from Miro or is it another one from Maciej?

It is still one and the same cross about which this thread is.

best regards
Maciej

[Pieter Verbruggen]

Imo an original cross post 1870. I think its a really nice one👍
Pieter.<

[morel5000]

Post 1870 it is! IMO you could buy much nicer post 1870 crosses. But hey that is just an opinion.

[Miro O]

Sorry, haven´t noticed when we switched from originality review to beauty contest.

Nevertheless, if we already did, I say:
You should be more consistent in your opinions, Michel. This cross can be either ugly, or never seen one.
If there are nicer pieces like this, than it is common cross.
If it has never seen frame, then its rarity should outfight its look...

[morel5000]

Hi Miro,

Can you show a period photograph of this type frame from the 1890ies?

Thanks,
Michel