WW1 tank badge - authentic?

[FelixMG]

Hi!

Have been reading up on the WW1 tank badge but as I am not too experienced with imperial militaria figured I had best post it here.

As far as I can tell the quality of execution seems good, but I am unsure about the unusual screw back fitting. Appreciate any thoughts or concerns!

Thanks,

Felix

[elbavaro]

Well .… interesting.

I say fake, because:

a) never heard or read about any KWA manufacturer which produced screw back versions
b) the bow is not like it should be - Looks a little bit like the crumpled bow fakes - could be same fake manufacturer
c) the teeth and the skull itself look like they are not in one piece. Skull is too far in the back and the teeth look more like a moustache
d) the exploding grenades look strange
EDIT: e) forgot to say: the screwback disk isn't like the original ones you usually find on Iron Crosses

Did you buy it? What are the measures and the weight?


Kind Regards
Chris

[Gary Symonds]

Unknown original, in my opinion.

[Don D.]

Not a known original. The details on the front are too weak. Definitely not the Juncker/Meybauer design.

[Gary Symonds]

Not a known original. The details on the front are too weak. Definitely not the Juncker/Meybauer design.

Don, here is Robin Lumsden's example in post 45, from 2004.

Looks very close to the example in this thread.

Maybe I am missing something, but exactly where are the details "weak."?

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...k+badge&page=4

[elbavaro]

Don, here is Robin Lumsden's example in post 45, from 2004.

Looks very close to the example in this thread.

Maybe I am missing something, but exactly where are the details "weak."?

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...k+badge&page=4

The details there (post #45) regarding the battlefield in front of the tank are totaly different to this one here.

Can you see them?

[FelixMG]

Thanks for the replies so far! The badge seems pretty confusing. I dont have it in my possession, but the seller claims that it was period made by a jeweller. Based on the description they also indicate that it is likely made of unmarked silver.

They are willing to guarantee its authenticity but who knows how much weight that normally has with something like this.

[rbminis]

They are willing to guarantee its authenticity but who knows how much weight that normally has with something like this.

They will also say that knowing that it would be near impossible to prove it to be a fake to them.
Does his guarantee also carry a money back offer?
Ralph.

[101combatvet]

Thanks for the replies so far! The badge seems pretty confusing. I dont have it in my possession, but the seller claims that it was period made by a jeweller. Based on the description they also indicate that it is likely made of unmarked silver.

They are willing to guarantee its authenticity but who knows how much weight that normally has with something like this.

It sounds like a big fish story; I'd pass on it. How would they know any of that? The badge lacks detail; it's a roughcasting.

[elbavaro]

Ok, let's say the jeweler-story is true. What happend?


There is a jeweler and a customer (awarded with the KWA) joins his shop and wants to have a screwback Version. Then the jeweler has a few ways to satisfy his custimer.


a) manufacturing a complete new KWA.

In this case you should find a totaly different one compared to the ones we already know. Like the 1st. "Sepp Dietrich" KWA.

Or if the jeweler knew more about the KWA, then it could be more or less similar to the well known ones, but would show major differences in the details as well. What I mean: if the jeweler doesn't copy an origional, then it should be a mixture of a Sepps Dietrich KWA and an original manufacturer, but more in the Dietrich direction. (I hope I made myself clear?)

And if it is made of silver, then a jeweler always would mark it. Maybe a big manufacturer forgott to mark a silver piece, but never a jeweler.


b) manufacturing a complete copy from an original KWA.

In this case the jeweler would take an original from one of the manufacturers we already know. He would make a mould and simply copy it, then you should find the exact details at the front like we already know.


c) converting from an original KWA the pin set into screwback

In this case he would buy one from one of the manufacturers we already know. He would remove the pin set and replace it by the screwback. Then - surprise - again you should find the exact details at the front like we already know.

And you should find tracks of the former pin set.


Coming to the screwback disk:

d) the jeweler makes a totaly new one

In this case he would take a simple plate (maybe silver) and manufacture a simple plain disk. He never would make a complex disk like shown in the entry post.


e) the jeweler buys one from the market, which wasn't an unusual way that days.

In thise case it should look like the disks we already know.


Now let us compare the KWA shown in the entry post to the points above:
a) NO evidence for a jeweler piece; NO silver markings
b) NO conformity to known originals
c) NO known original; NO tracks of former pinset
d) NO evidence for a jeweler made disk
e) NO conformity to known originals (see attached picture)

Facing the Facts: it is what it is: a fake!

[Gary Symonds]

I asked my jeweler about creating a badge.

He said that this could not be done by a "jeweler" and would require an industrial manufacturing capacity.

Nothing that could be done in a back room workshop.

[elbavaro]

Couldn't have said it better.

Thanks!

[101combatvet]

I asked my jeweler about creating a badge.

He said that this could not be done by a "jeweler" and would require an industrial manufacturing capacity.

Nothing that could be done in a back room workshop.

A skilled jeweler could make it if he wanted to invest the time and for the right amount of money. The problem then would be that it would look like a jeweler copy and not as a crudely cast reproduction.

[Gary Symonds]

A skilled jeweler could make it if he wanted to invest the time and for the right amount of money. The problem then would be that it would look like a jeweler copy and not as a crudely cast reproduction.

How many jewelers have 10 ton presses?

[101combatvet]

How many jewelers have 10 ton presses?

A skilled jeweler doesn't need a ten ton press to make a copy of that badge. If you are talking about making a die set to stamp these out, that would not be difficult but would defeat the purpose of creating a single jeweler copy, and it would require much more time. No one would go to that trouble unless they were planning to crank out hundreds of these badges.