Prussian Order of the Black Eagle

[mel]

All,

I am contemplating purchasing this Prussian Order of the Black Eagle, but would like opinions before deciding as I am not too familiar with them.

It is made by "Raupp - Karlsruhe".

Is this a correct one? Or is it better to look for a specific maker?

Opinions are highly appreciated, thanks in advance.

[mel]

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[mel]

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[mel]

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[VtwinVince]

Very unusual design characteristics, and a maker I've never heard of before.

[GdC26]

Raupp existed, but the star presented will require a bit of research, which may not be that easy, as it is or purports to be an early star. According to Autengruber, Raupp was active in the late 1830's, possibly into the 1860's:

"Ludwig Raupp. Laut Klenau (in GK2 S. 36) war dieser im Karlsruher Adreßbuch von 1838 als Goldarbeiter unter der Anschrift Waldstraße 7 aufgeführt, der Bijoutier Peter Willet in der Ritterstraße 4. In der Ausgabe von 1845 tauchte Ludwig Raupp als Goldarbeiter unter der Anschrift Ritterstraße 4 der bisherigen Firma Willet, nunmehr Peter Willet Bijoutier Erben genant, auf. Somit kann davon ausgegangen werden, daß Ludwig Raupp nach dem wohl in den frühen 1840er Jahren erfolgten Tod Willets, dessen Firma an deren Sitz unter eigenem Namen übernommen hat. In der nächsten erschienen Ausgabe des Jahres 1854 wurde Raupps Anschrift als Hofgoldarbeiter in der Karl-Friedrich-Straße genannt. Ludwig Raupp starb wohl Ende der 1860er Jahre."

Copyright Künder/Autengruber: https://www.kuenker.de/de/archiv/stueck/172510

Thies will have an early star in his upcoming action, and regularly offers later ones. The latter also goes for Künker. Weitze has an early star on offer with an unusual mounting system: https://www.weitze.net/militaria/10/...n__327910.html

[mel]

Thanks for the responses!

Does that mean that the breast star is not te be trusted or will always be a point for discussion? There seem to be quite remarkable differences in manufacture between the various jewelers.

[Rangemaster]

All,

I am contemplating purchasing this Prussian Order of the Black Eagle, but would like opinions before deciding as I am not too familiar with them.

It is made by "Raupp - Karlsruhe".

Is this a correct one? Or is it better to look for a specific maker?

Opinions are highly appreciated, thanks in advance.

Hello,

Raupp/Karlsruhe was a legitimate manufacturer of Orders. However, I do not like the quality of this particular piece. I have seen another "Raupp" star which I highly suspected of being a counterfeit with a cast star body.

Another issue, is that even if this is a genuine period piece, it is technically a "copy" made by special order for a recipient. It should therefore command a lower price than a piece made by a Prussian jeweler. I suggest that you search for a star by a Prussian-maker. They are not rare, and you will always be confident regarding that what you have is "textbook".

Best regards,

[GdC26]

hello,

raupp/karlsruhe was a legitimate manufacturer of orders. However, i do not like the quality of this particular piece. I have seen another "raupp" star which i highly suspected of being a counterfeit with a cast star body.

Another issue, is that even if this is a genuine period piece, it is technically a "copy" made by special order for a recipient. It should therefore command a lower price than a piece made by a prussian jeweler. I suggest that you search for a star by a prussian-maker. They are not rare, and you will always be confident regarding that what you have is "textbook".

Best regards,

+1

[mel]

Hi Guys,

That is exactly the type of information I was looking for! I now learned that it is an actual jeweler's copy which is not considered to be the real thing which makes it less interesting as it is not "textbook".

Thanks guys!

[Elmar Lang]

I wouldn't like to sound offensive, but I hate the term "textbook", referred to a decoration, especially when of early type/manufacture.

Of course, an officially manufactured Black Eagle (star and/or badge) should be made in Prussia, but we know that orders were also made elsewhere.

For instance, the (Austrian) star pictured below, right, comes from the group of orders, belonged of a German personality: it's everything but a "textbook" piece, but I think that few people would reject it…

All the best,

E.L.

[Gary B]

E.L...beautiful display.

I agree with E.L., I, personally, find the awards made by "foreign" jewelers as interesting as the Prussian made pieces. I have seen some made in France or Britain, depending on the home country of the recipient. At this level of award, they become more works of art than just an order.

Gary B

[GdC26]

E.L...beautiful display.

I agree with E.L., I, personally, find the awards made by "foreign" jewelers as interesting as the Prussian made pieces. I have seen some made in France or Britain, depending on the home country of the recipient. At this level of award, they become more works of art than just an order.

Gary B

That is hardly true for the piece at hand - which barely compares to contemporary originals (see for example the pics below of an Austrian manufactured 1850's star formerly offered by Weitze), and which I thought is what we were debating.

[GdC26]

An earlier example made by Godet. The quality just isn't there on the thread starter.

[Rangemaster]

I wouldn't like to sound offensive, but I hate the term "textbook", referred to a decoration, especially when of early type/manufacture.

Of course, an officially manufactured Black Eagle (star and/or badge) should be made in Prussia, but we know that orders were also made elsewhere.

For instance, the (Austrian) star pictured below, right, comes from the group of orders, belonged of a German personality: it's everything but a "textbook" piece, but I think that few people would reject it…

All the best,

E.L.

Elmar,

You bring up an excellent point. There are period foreign-made (made by a jeweler from another state or country other than a jeweler contracted by the issuing state) pieces that are copies that are of excellent manufacturing quality and are sometimes better than the awarded pieces. I have several of these types of copies in my collection (one of which used to belong to you). I actually enjoy collecting these items very much. So the term "copy" when referring to these items has no negative connotation.

I agree that "textbook" is a poor term to use for Napoleonic or early-era Orders as there was a great degree of variation.

I believe that the term counterfeit should be used for items that were never made to be awarded to a recipient or purchased by a recipient. Not to be confused with the term "copy" as used above.

Best regards,