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    #1

    Unknown Cap & Cipher, help needed.

    Hi Guys,

    Was hoping to get some help on a student cap could be from the Weimar period but don't really know, something also tells me early 1800's period after looking on the internet.
    I don't even know if this is the correct section to post, I'm sorry and could repost if someone can tell me where.

    Markings are as follows,

    Studenten Mutzenlager
    Georg Kumpf
    Marbura
    There is a logo just beneath but scratched out to make known.

    I would like to know what year and the cipher on top of the cap stands for or represents. Are the common and what would be a fair price for something in this condition?

    Many thanks in advance.

    Cheers
    NCO
    Attached Files
    Last edited by NCO; 05-04-2018, 03:27 AM. Reason: text
    Tags: None
    #2
    In my opinion it is Marburg. Not strange as there was a university there, the
    well-known Philipps-Universität, which already existed from 1527.
    During the TR-period they had an enormous lot of Kameradschaften. I thought
    it were about fifteen.

    The cap is a sort of Parade-Cerevis, to be worn with the Paradepekesche by students.
    I have no idea about what period, but they were anyway still in use during the
    TR-period and later.
    If such headddress was worn with the so-called Kneiprock, I do not know.
    I have no idea what the value is, but I know they were quite expensive
    in those days.

    I can't post photos here, but I have some to show the complete dress as worn!
    Last edited by wilhelm Saris; 05-04-2018, 05:42 AM.

    Comment

      #3
      What the previous poster said.

      Value - quite unknown. This is not militaria and I believe the market for Student items to be very small and hence the value compared to German militaria not very high. If you want to sell best put it on German ebay as IMO most collectors of this sort of thing will be found on German ebay and not here on estand.

      Comment

        #4
        Thank you Wilhelm ,
        Much appreciated.
        cheers
        NCO

        Comment

          #5
          Originally posted by NCO View Post
          Thank you Wilhelm ,
          Much appreciated. cheers NCO
          Through mail photos were send, NCO.
          Both are photographs from the early Third Reich-Period.
          There still is a lot of tradition about this.

          It would be a pity when you sell. It is a great gadget!

          Comment

            #6
            It is an nice example that could date as early as the late 1800s probably until the early 1920s. I would guess circa 1900 and pre-WWI period. Sometimes when you research these if they are named they will turn up belonging to people who were higher ranking nazis and SS members.

            Comment

              #7
              cap

              Thanks Wilhelm, Kaiserwilhelm2 and Johnny,
              Got your email Wim, thank you.
              I will research this more now as I think this could be something special.
              There is no name though.
              chers
              NCO

              Comment

                #8
                cap

                Hi Guys,
                Credit goes to Wim Saris who has supplied two photos below to share with all.
                Here the photo of a student sitting in his dress with cap and the other photo shows another form of cap, early Third Reich. Thanks Wim.

                As stated by Wilhelm, Philipps-Universität Marburg it is also the oldest university in the world that was founded as a Protestant institution in 1527 with nearly five centuries of teaching and research.

                What cipher letters on the cap thread started can anyone make out, to the left is an " ' i ' but on the right what do you all see?

                cheers
                NCO
                Attached Files

                Comment

                  #9
                  Thanks NCO for showing them.
                  For those to know: the photographs did come from photo-albums from members from
                  "Der Stahlhelm - Bund der Frontsoldaten" and so they are early TR-period! If they
                  were members or friends of members, I do not know, but there was a sub-organization
                  Stahlhelm-Studenten.

                  I have some more, but not with this type of cap, but other forms of headgear (Studentenmützen).
                  The three guys do not wear the Parade-Cerevis, but probably the somewhat simpler "Biertonne".

                  What the letters be, I have no idea, but they are Latin abbreviations, often used.
                  Last edited by wilhelm Saris; 05-05-2018, 03:04 AM.

                  Comment

                    #10
                    It seems the name is Rumpf instead of Kumpf.
                    There was another headgear manufacturer at Marburg with the name of Rumpf. He made headgear for political organizations.

                    Comment

                      #11
                      Hi Wim,
                      You stand correct on this , a closer look at the name does spell out Rumpf.Good work.
                      Cheers
                      NCO

                      Comment

                        #12
                        Very nice pics - reminds me of my own time at university.

                        Comment

                          #13
                          The cap was shown at the War Relics Forum in hope we could find an anwer.
                          And we did! To start the upper view from the cap, is upside down. This caused the main problem.

                          Further: one of the best researcher at WRF gave some extra information and I was able also to add some interesting "news":
                          The cypher (Zirkel) on the cap looks like that of the Teutonia Marburg, who used the colors blue and red from 1825 to 1827.
                          The abbreviation is the letter "T", worked into the cypher. Teutonia's Latin motto (Leitspruch) is "Vivant fratres intimo foedere iuncti!"
                          [= "Long live the brothers tied by an intimate bond"... or something along those lines.]

                          It is known the university of Marburg had during the Third Reich-period about fifteen Kameradschaften.
                          Most of them were granted a name between 1938 and late 1940.
                          At Marburg members of the Kameradschaften held the traditions for the Teutonia-corps.
                          Especially Kameradschaft IX with the name Carl Allmenroeder (Allmenröder), who was a Teuton. They kept the old traditions alive!

                          The cap could be very old, but as due to the traditions it could have been worn during the TR-period as well!
                          Last edited by wilhelm Saris; 05-09-2018, 04:59 AM.

                          Comment

                            #14
                            Teutonia Marburg

                            Brilliant work Wim and to the WRF member and members who helped solve the cipher in question and add to the mystery of the cap.
                            Credit goes to you and all who made a contribution.

                            Its a great looking cap , one I think I'll keep because of its beauty and uniqueness.

                            I have put together a little collage of related, coat of arms and a print relating to the Zirkel Corps Teutonia Marburg with cap and cipher.

                            cheers
                            NCO
                            Attached Files

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