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    #16
    Originally posted by bolewts58 View Post
    It looks ok. However, the the variations are a concern. I'm not expert enough on these to give a solid opinion in favor or not.
    Would like to repeat: who has the information about the name and the rest of the inscription. I do not know of anyone else who may have lists with these informations.
    The pin may be renewed, but that could have been done already in the old days.
    Last edited by wilhelm Saris; 04-28-2016, 02:20 AM.

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      #17
      Originally posted by wilhelm Saris View Post
      Would like to repeat: who has the information about the name and the rest of the inscription. I do not know of anyone else who may have lists with these informations.
      The pin may be renewed, but that could have been done already in the old days.
      True. Good points.

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        #18
        With an oddball item you'll spend a lot of time defending it.

        If price is reasonable I guess that would be helpful in making a decision.

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          #19
          Lots of good discussion regarding this particular Wehrsportkreuz and Wehrsportkreuze in general. I did some searching in my saved photo archives and actually found another Wehrsportkreuz like it so the version that started this thread is not a one-off. I think this number 778 was awarded to Felix Schoen, Ortsg. Falkenburg. I don't know if we are ever going to definitively determine the age/origin of these Wehrsportkreuze without the red beak, but to dismiss them as complete reproductions IMO is unwarranted. They are identical in manufacturing quality to the red beaked versions and as Wilhelm pointed out, at least the one references a number to a name that actually is correct per the award announcement in a period newspaper (the other is just numbered). Were they period replacements for lost/misplaced Kreuze? Were they newly made for the re-instituted cross with order 2 from 1987? (IMO they look/seem older than of 1987 vintage and even if that is what they are, it does not make them reproductions rather just new legitimate badges for a resurrected organization). Either way, both versions are beautiful/colorful, heavy, well-made, enameled/silvered badges worth having in any German veteran's organization collection regardless of which version - preferably both versions. The version without the red beak seems to be less-encountered than the one with the red beak. Again, great discussion! Chris
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            #20
            Front pictures.
            Attached Files

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              #21
              Yes, 778 was granted for five years to Felix Schoen from Ortsgruppe Falkenburg at the Landesverband Pommern/Grenzmark.
              The name was publsihed January 22, 1933 and granted in the period from 1 through December 31, 1932.

              Dastardly do you have the document for Schoene?

              1987: a rest lot was used from the old days and some were newly made, with the help of the old dies (which were saved from
              Der Stahlhof). As far as I am informed.
              Last edited by wilhelm Saris; 04-28-2016, 12:30 PM.

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                #22
                Wilhelm,
                I do not have the document for Felix Schoen. You gave me the information when I spotted this Wehrsportkreuz a few years ago. I own the attached document (IMO much harder to find than the badge itself). Thank you again for your help and insight regarding this Wehrsportkreuz discussion, Chris
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                  #23
                  Originally posted by dastardly View Post
                  Wilhelm, I do not have the document for Felix Schoen. You gave me the information when I spotted this Wehrsportkreuz a few years ago. I own the attached document (IMO much harder to find than the badge itself). Thank you again for your help and insight regarding this Wehrsportkreuz discussion, Chris
                  Great to see this document for Claus Bischoff from Weyhe, Landesverband Niedersachsen for lifetime. He held the number 153.
                  In the list I have they mention it as Wehe, which apparently is not correct. Weyhe is just south of the city of Bremen....

                  Comment

                    #24
                    Is there any significance in the fact the the one that started the discussion has the Landwehr Kreuz on the helmet, while the one just posted for comparison does not?
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                      #25
                      Originally posted by bolewts58 View Post
                      Is there any significance in the fact the the one that started the discussion has the Landwehr Kreuz on the helmet, while the one just posted for comparison does not?
                      good observation bolewts58. I had not noticed this. How quick one overlook soemthing,. The information I have I did
                      check and there is no mentioning of a different helmet.

                      Had someone from the Kernstahlhelm replaced the symbol, due to the fact he was from the Kernstahlhelm? All I have ever seen did
                      have the ring instead the cross. If someone has "faked" this or changed this, where did he get the information about the number
                      and name???
                      Last edited by wilhelm Saris; 04-29-2016, 02:09 AM.

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                        #26
                        Originally posted by wilhelm Saris View Post
                        good observation bolewts58. I had not noticed this. How quick one overlook soemthing,. The information I have I did
                        check and there is no mentioning of a different helmet.

                        Had someone from the Kernstahlhelm replaced the symbol, due to the fact he was from the Kernstahlhelm? All I have ever seen did
                        have the ring instead the cross. If someone has "faked" this or changed this, where did he get the information about the number
                        and name???
                        Good questions.

                        But, IMO, I don't think it's been messed with in any way. I believe all the parts, including the hinge and pin are original to the badge and my gut tells me, based on your information about the name and number that its original and just an anomaly of some kind.

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                          #27
                          This is what I love about our group
                          Constructive discussion
                          Also when something right in front of us we don't pick up immediately eg the helmet cross.... Good spot

                          As I have already stated the badge first posted is so different rear hardware than we normally see

                          The center helmet retaining pin is unlike any other I have seen. Possible cause an extra center piece of metal inserted to stop a possible loosened helmet?

                          The engraving done before that center pin finished

                          All other badges I have ever seen have a distinctive stamped issue number. These were not wishy washy as I say

                          I post some pics of mine just for reference

                          My badge number 861 is an actual replacement badge of which wim found the supporting documentation

                          Then again mine are all red beaked

                          With such a low number ever issued would it be that another company also produced to meet the first issue dates ?

                          I'm just thinking off the top of my head
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                            #28
                            Center pin and good number stamp

                            Also the gesh is in the exact place on all of mine
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