BK on ribbon

[Johnny R]

I will send it back to the seller and look for another one. Thank You!

[Nigel N]

Here's an example of a 1960's replacement piece by S&L to compare......

[speedytop]

Hi bolewts58

... in colloquial collector terms, along with official 57er Third Reich awards, Imperial German, Freikorps and Weimar era awards produced after 1945 are referred to as 57er pieces as well, although not officially sanctioned as such.

No! Never!

It seems, that you (and some other collectors) are not willing, to understand the special feature, the "spirit" of the 57er pieces.
"Imperial German, Freikorps and Weimar era awards produced after 1945" are not and never originals and they are not and never 57ers.
They can only be copies, replacements, fakes or otherwise named.
All the "Imperial German, Freikorps and Weimar era awards produced after 1945" have already been produced before the German law from 1957.
And they have absolutely nothing to do with the 57ers in the officially changed design.
Or do you really think, that an "Imperial German, Freikorps and Weimar era award", produced in 1955, should be called a 57er?
It is not important, when they had been produced, some years before ore some years after the German law from 1957; they are not originals and they are not 57ers, and they can not be "referred to as 57er pieces as well".

Please, think about it!

Uwe

[Brian L.]

Hi bolewts58



No! Never!

It seems, that you (and some other collectors) are not willing, to understand the special feature, the "spirit" of the 57er pieces.
"Imperial German, Freikorps and Weimar era awards produced after 1945" are not and never originals and they are not and never 57ers.
They can only be copies, replacements, fakes or otherwise named.
All the "Imperial German, Freikorps and Weimar era awards produced after 1945" have already been produced before the German law from 1957.
And they have absolutely nothing to do with the 57ers in the officially changed design.
Or do you really think, that an "Imperial German, Freikorps and Weimar era award", produced in 1955, should be called a 57er?
It is not important, when they had been produced, some years before ore some years after the German law from 1957; they are not originals and they are not 57ers, and they can not be "referred to as 57er pieces as well".

Please, think about it!

Uwe

I don't appreciate your condescending tone. Of course I understand and am well aware of the law. I was merely pointing out that many collectors use the term 57er (however incorrectly) as a generic term. I have been collecting for 50+ years and this is probably the first time I have ever used it this way, because I have only seen it used generically (incorrectly obviously) on this forum and others by collectors from Germany in recent years and thought that it had become a new general term for post-1945 genuine replacement awards. Obviously, this is an incorrect trend. But, if you want to blame anyone for this recent misuse of the term 57er, blame your fellow countrymen because that's where the misconception started. I was merely emulating them. Obviously, I won't do that again.

[speedytop]

Hi bolewts58,

it seems, that I hit the wrong man. I beg your pardon!

I'm now collecting for more than 50 years, and I'm frustrated about several "hardcore" 57er collectors, who are not willing (or not able?), to understand the speciality of the 57er pieces. Most of them are not Germans, sorry.
It is always the attempt of these collectors, to include not original pieces into the 57er assortment. They want to "upgrade" the copies/reproductions in their collection to 57ers, so that the copies can have a higher value.

In German Forums only very few collectors are left and live in this dreamland. It may be, that I could express the special features of the 57er better in German than in English.

You show the problem in your statement:

"... that it had become a new general term for post-1945 genuine replacement awards."

Only the officially named Third Reich pieces in the officially changed design are 57er pieces. They are not originals for me, because the originals are the awarded and otherwise officially produced pieces in the area 1933/1934 up to May 1945. In the last time I called them replacement originals (Ersatz-Originale).
All the other post-1945 produced pieces, Imperial, Freikorps, Weimar era or Third Reich (the allowed pieces, where the design must not be changed) are not "genuine replacement awards". I think, that genuine means officially, but there is no officially licence/permit, to produce not original pieces.
There is only the officially allowance in the law from 1957, to wear all the listed and otherwise included decorations; but there is no mandate, to produce copies/reproductions.

Uwe

[Brian L.]

speedytop

I don't collect beyond 1933. So, I could care less about Third Reich awards, legally redesigned 1957 Third Reich awards, or the post-1945 Imperial and Weimar awards sold by the likes of Friedrich Sedlaczek, for example (whether as repros for collectors or as some still think, replacement pieces for entitled recipients).

I wasn't arguing in favor of the generic use of 57er, only stating that it was in wide use, whether wrongly or not.

You're obviously correct, but rather pedantic about it all. Maybe it's a language thing as English isn't your first language.

[speedytop]

Hi bolewts58,

to be "obviously correct" is pedantic? Sorry, but I don't understand that.

I'm precise, and I live in the reality and not in a dreamland with wishful thinking.

It would for example be pedantic, to insist only on the pictured decorations in the official publication from 1958.
But I and others found, that there two decorations are missing.

One, the live saving medal, had been included before the law from 1957 (official written manufacturing instructions exist), but they decided, not to include the medal into the publication from 1958. I don't know why. Later investigations showed (mainly made by Klietmann), that the medal did not exist in the design without the swastika before.
The other, the red cross medal, had obviously been forgotten.

And therefore I say with belief, that these two medals, in the design without the swastika, are genuine 57ers.

Uwe

[Brian L.]

Oh my God! Perhaps pedantic wasn't strong enough. I'm not disagreeing with any of your statements, but on your method of delivery. So, instead of pedantic, how about overbearing and dogmatic, perhaps bordering on strident?

But, then again, maybe I'm becoming pedantic.

You win.

cheers.