Freikorps patch?

[AJ]

Hi,
just got this patch. I have no doubt that is original, just never saw it before!

Patch is dark fieldgray in color and show signs of sewings from being sewn unto a uniform.

According to litterateur, the part of the Jäger zu Pferde Regiment 3 did continue duty in the Freikorps in the area of Russisch-Polen after November 1918.

My question; would this patch be a semi official pre-November 1918 patch for the JzP regiment 3 or would it rather be a Freikorps related?

[AJ]

2

[mchap]

How big is the patch?

Could you also please site what reference you are looking at for 3.JzP FK service? I dont see them in Georg Tessin's order of battle. If this was Freikorps I'd expect to see the detachment/group name versus their wartime delineation. That being said, Im of the opinion that if real it could also be wartime (if authentic)... lets see what the Imperial collectors have to say about it.

[Brian L.]

Firtly, I doubt they wore something like this during the war. As far as I know they didn't continue service as a Freikorps unit, as such, but became part of the Reichswehr as Preussisches Reiter Regiment 11 which was formed in Oberschlesien. The patch could possibly be a Reichswehr Traditionabzeichen for former members of JzP 3. It was a known practice in Reichswehr cavalry units to have tradition badges related to previous Imperial units.

[AJ]

Hi,
From what I have been able to reseach, the Jäger zu Pferde Regiment 3 did
"Grenzschutz" and police duty in the area of Russisch-Polen from November 1918 untill February 1919, after that it was disbanded.

The patch could very well be a Reichswehr Traditionabzeichen for former members of JzP 3. Would any one have pictures of such patches in wear?

Size of patch, please see pic.

[Brian L.]

Hi,
From what I have been able to reseach, the Jäger zu Pferde Regiment 3 did
"Grenzschutz" and police duty in the area of Russisch-Polen from November 1918 untill February 1919, after that it was disbanded.

The patch could very well be a Reichswehr Traditionabzeichen for former members of JzP 3. Would any one have pictures of such patches in wear?

Size of patch, please see pic.

Please send the reference where you found the Grenzschutz service because at the moment, I really have my doubts.

From what I understand, the Sicherheits-Polizei took over duties from JzP3 in November 1918 in the East and the Imperial cavalry unit was disbanded. It was reformed in mid-1919 as Rw Reiter-Regt. 11.

This patch does not appear in any Freikorps book I have ever seen.

[Brian L.]

It would seem that your source for information is Wikipedia. If this information is true, It may be that this patch was worn for the short period (until Feb 1919) that a Volunteer squadron of this unit served in Border Protection, which might explain the hand-made nature of the badge.

But, it would be very difficult to prove anything as there is no record of this badge.

[AJ]

Hi,
my source is at the moment:
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/J%C3%A...u_Pferde_Nr._3

I havn't been able to locate any copy of "Hermann Obkircher: Jäger-Regiment zu Pferde Nr. 3 im Frieden und im Kriege. Verlag G. Stalling. 1923." which I guess be the best source for, what the unit did between November 1918 until Febr. 1919.

I have no clue weather to date the patch to pre or post November 1918. Though I'm quite sure it is from before 1933.

If not Freikorps related, I tend to believe, you may be right, bolewts58, in your suggestion that it might possibly be a Reichswehr Traditionabzeichen for former members of JzP 3, although I havn't seen that in any books either.

[Brian L.]

Other cavalry units, most notably Cuirassier Regt. 7 wore a badge both as a Fk squadron in the Baltic (for a brief period) and as Reichswehr-Reiter-Regiment 10.

I have owned 2 versions of this badge. See the following link.

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/FORU....php?p=5955297

My gut tells me that your badge fits into this category. I am almost 100% sure it is not from WWI.

[Brian L.]

I've done a bit of detective work on this patch.

Below is a picture of the actual Freikorps sleeve badge for the Freiwilligen-Eskadron des Regiments Jäger zu Pferde 3.
They were also known as Freiwilligen-Eskadron 59 as part of Kommando Grodno which is consistent with Wikipedia which states:

"Vor dem Rückmarsch war in Grodno noch eine Freiwilligen-Eskadron für Grenzschutzaufgaben zusammengestellt worden."

...which essentially says that before returning home and demobilizing, a squadron of the regiment served in Grodno in border protection duty.

Here is the complete make-up of Kommando Grodno.

Kommandantur Grodno
Freiw.Bataillon 20 (4 Kpn.) von der 46. [sächs.] Landw.Div.
I./141 (1 Kp. mit 8 MG)
Freiw.Fuhrpark-Kol. 59
Wirtschafts-Kompanie 59
Freiw.Fernspr.Zug 59
Freiw.Pionierzug 59
Freiw.Eskadron 59


While there are similarities in the layout of the letters and number '3', your patch is obviously quite a bit different; much larger and of comparative lower quality of manufacture. My thought now is that yours, if real may be a hastily thrown together badge which was later replaced by the embroidered badge I've pictured. Or, because of its apparently much larger size and gray background, it was some sort of jerry-rigged sleeve badge for the greatcoat. It may be too large for either. In which case, my third thought is that it's maybe a central device from a troop guidon or flag of some kind.

Could you give us the dimensions? It looks to be about 14 cm high if compared to the EKI you placed on it.

The problem with badges like yours, that turn up out of the blue is the lack of reference and also the lack of open-mindedness of many Freikorps collectors. The current exhaustive catalogue by Ingo Haarcke on Freikorps formation badges acts as a kind of checklist for most collectors, despite the fact that there are gaps and some mistakes in it. So, if it's not in there, then it becomes hard to convince any but the comparatively few investigative collectors, that new badges or variations not illustrated are genuine Freikorps.

Freikorps history is still an open book because many of the records were destroyed in a bombing raid in March 1945. So, at best some things are based on conjecture, cross-referencing, comparison and extrapolation

[mchap]

Nice bit of detective work Brian! That came together pretty nicely.

I dont see Freiw. Eskadron 59 in Georg Tessin's list though... only a Freiw. Regt. 59

[Brian L.]

Nice bit of detective work Brian! That came together pretty nicely.

I dont see Freiw. Eskadron 59 in Georg Tessin's list though... only a Freiw. Regt. 59

I actually don't have tessin's book. My information comes from the central German army records that follows the evolution of the Freikorps to Reichswehr to Wehrmacht to Bundeswehr.