unknown badge, help

[just]

Hello
do you know this badge ?
I never seen a Grenzschutz Ost like that
thanks for answers
cordially
Didier

[juoneen]

Reminds me of the shield on the Iron brigade medal. never seen one like it prior to this one. (of course I do not focus on WW1 as much)

[Brian L.]

Freiwilligen-Brigade Grodno Ehrenzeichen

Genuine badges are relatively hard to find. Based on the photos, yours appears ok, if rather beat-up. There are usually 2 types: one with an oxidized or blackened wreath and one with a silver wreath. As far as I know, this is just a manufacturaing variation and doesn't denote grade. Commonly the pins are wide tapered pins such as yours. But, a needle pin was also used on badges believed to have been made by Godet. Although I have never any of these badges with a maker's mark.

Brigade Grodno was formed from 4. Landwehr-Division

Formed in the area of Kurland and Litauen as part of the Baltic Landwehr

It became part of Reichswehr-Brigade 16 in Aug 1919


Made up of the follwing Freikorps units:

Freiwilligen Regiment Preußen 14

Freiwilligen Regiment 15

Freiwilligen Bataillon 1

Freiwilligen Artillerie Abteilung 12

Freiwilligen Eskadron 3 / Hus. 15

[just]

Hello bolewts
thank you very much for explanations
cordially
Didier

[Brian L.]

you're welcome.

Here is the badge I mentioned with needle style pin proported to be by Godet. I tend to agree with this as the pin and hinge style matches that used on other Godet Freikorps badges.

As you can see, unlike yours which had a black painted wreath at one time, this one has a chemically oxidized wreath and back.

[just]

Hello
thanks a lot again for the pictures
cordially
Didier

[Destruction]

I agree that the badge in the beginning of the thread is original; however, I'm not so sure about the one you posted, Brian. It reminds me very much of fakes currently sold by ordensammler site (attached), but with different pin set up.

[Brian L.]

I don't agree that it's the same as those from Ordensammler, which I've seen, nor that it's a fake. My photos don't really do the badge justice. All things considered, it's quite a well made example of this badge and the strike and the enamelling is very crisp. I've seen similar ones on both the Weitze and Phillips sites.

The problem with this award in general is that it was never that well made. The wreath design was quite soft, particularly on the back.

Until I get definitive proof that it is indeed a fake, I'm operating on my original premise. As I intend to sell it, I will list it as original and guarantee it as such.

By the way, while I agree that most of Ordensammler's material is fake or at least suspicious, he also does have some real items. The fake Bug Stern he sells is very good, right down to the proper style hardware. The tell-tale signs that flag this badge are it's finish, the style of type-face which is wrong and the black enamel centre. The enlisted man's badge never had black enamel, only black lacquer. I discussed it previously in the fakes forum. http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=519936

So, the big question is; who is producing these high-end and convincing fakes? Are they from that Russian who has been making the screw-back Baltic Crosses? Or, who?

[Destruction]

Brian,
For me it is still a variant of the same badge. Please see the amended picture below, I marked in red some strange places which you can find on both badges (yours and ordensammler) but not on originals. Also the hook looks similar, a bit oblate in the upper part. Finally, the finish looks strange, is the badge really made of buntmetal and not of some kind of grey metal? One could expect buntmetal pouring through and visible for a badge almost 100 years old?
Yep, qualitywise the originals are not on highest level (well, may be not even on a middle ), still they were made using all technology tricks , including guilloche (or how it's called in English?) under the enamel, you can see it under the enamel crack on Didier's badge. It was die stamped, so it is also clearly visible on reverse of the badge, exactly under the enamel. I do not see it on your badge, can you make a better picture of this place (shield from reverse)? Strange thing for a badge made by Godet, isn't it?
To sum up-for me it's a good quality fake, same good as Bug Stern you told about. Do not know who is producing them (Russian trace is not excluded, but I do not see these for sale in Russia), but we must be careful.

[Brian L.]

You make good points, particularly on the visual evidence. But, I see some of those same flaws on didier's badge (particularly the top of the shield reverse on the right). On my badge, the highlights of the wreath are warn and showing brass, not grey metal.

I've seen a number of the badges for sale online with darkened sword like those on the Ordensammler site. I haven't seen another like mine with a needle pin and silvered sword which may be a good or bad thing.

So, at the moment I still remain cautiously in favour of my badge.

[Brian L.]

I found the same type of badge as mine on GMIC owned by Eric Stahlhut, except that it has a flat square pin instead of needle pin. There it is declared as genuine. So, the difference of opinion deepens. In searching online, I've found this strike plus two other strikes with slightly different details especially on the back of the shield. I can't post the others as the images are protected and can't be copied.
Although Ordensammler is guilty of selling a lot of spurious material, there are also genuine items on the site mixed in with the fakes. Is it not possible that his Grodno badge is real?

Attached are pics of the GMIC badge and the 2010 link the thread.

http://gmic.co.uk/index.php/topic/42...de-volunteers/

[Destruction]

Although Ordensammler is guilty of selling a lot of spurious material, there are also genuine items on the site mixed in with the fakes. Is it not possible that his Grodno badge is real?

/[/url]

Hmmm...kinda hard to imagine it's a real one. There are 3 of this kind for sale at once--one at ordensammler, and two others --on ebay and militaria 321, both from crap-selling champions. All three are different (not the same badge).

[Brian L.]

You're correct, of course.

But, I will say, at least that there aren't tons of them around, which isn't proof of anything. But, it simply makes one wonder.

[Mike Kenny]

Here's one I picked up a while ago that a friend in Germany is holding for me (no better pics will be available). The reverse looks different to both, but the hardware is very similar to the first example.

Regards
Mike

[Destruction]

Hi Mike,
Can you ask your friend for a good straight pictures of obverse and reverse?