Amazing JR17 steel helmet

[90th Light]

I just recently picked this up.

Very intersting in more ways than one.

WW1 Hungarian type pressed into use by the Germans after WW1.

I am interested in what anyone else thinks of this i.e. good, bad or indifferent

Many thanks, Chris

[90th Light]

Front & back

Sadly there is a bit of a twist in the front visor,

Chris

[90th Light]

decal correctly applied for that state

Looks to be a period decal,

Chris

[90th Light]

Hand paint skull in correct period silver foil type paint.

Looks white in the image but its not. It is like the silver on a WW2 decal.

Not sure if the whole thing is hand painted or if it is a decal which has been enchanced by hand ???

Chris

[90th Light]

Correct period type skull for the era of use. Nice artist detail when compared to this one on an Imperial HR17 stein or the rare metal type to the right of the stein,

Chris

[90th Light]

Inside

The liner looks like it was only recently removed. Little did they know what a rare gem they were dismantling.

Unusual chinstrap but again it might be correct for a Hungarian helmet after WW1.

Tooth picks are now holding the liner rivets in place,

Chris

[90th Light]

Name on the rim.

Looks all correct for the period and the unit,

Chris

[90th Light]

More close ups.

I like the way it is done and the style used,

Chris

[90th Light]

Close up of the maker mark and size.

If you turn your head sideways, you should be able to see the Hungarian " bear " maker mark above the size "64".

Plus there is a capital "A" higher up.

Chris

[90th Light]

Any other members thoughts about this helmet would be appreciated,

Chris

[Sergeant 08]

Hand paint skull in correct period silver foil type paint.

Looks white in the image but its not. It is like the silver on a WW2 decal.

Not sure if the whole thing is hand painted or if it is a decal which has been enchanced by hand ???

Chris

In my opinion the whole skull looks hand painted.

The skull design is from the Imperial issued skull, that was still used in the Wehrmacht.

[Bernhard]

The helmet shown was made in austria in 1934 or '35 by the firm
of Artur Krupp Metallwarenfabrik in Berndorf to fulfill a contract they
had received from the austrian police.

So what you have is a Polizeihelm of the austrian police from the mid
thierties with a very nice outside paint in policegreen.
From your pics the inside looks to be painted in another color.

From the above said I must admit that I think that all the insignias and
Markings on your helmet are totally bogus.Sorry !

Best regards

Bernhard

[90th Light]

In my opinion the whole skull looks hand painted.

The skull design is from the Imperial issued skull, that was still used in the Wehrmacht.

Thanks Sergeant,

I appreciate the reply and the image posted.

Had not realised that only the 1st & 4th companies of 17JR could wear the skull on their hats/ helmets.

Also agree esp. now that I have magnified the skull, it is hand painted.

Have not been able to find out much at all about Reichswehr helmets. Are there any detailed references on them ?

This is about the sum total of what I have found so far;

""Reichswehr helmets bore hand-painted crests in the colors of the province in which they were garrisoned. Instituted in approximately 1923, the shield-shaped insignia (Wappenschild) of the Reichsheer was painted on the left side of World War I helmets used during this period. Beginning 26 January 1924, the Reichsmarine adopted a similar concept by employing a gold and white shield with anchor devices on the left side of the helmet. On 14 March 1933 a National tricolored shield of black, white and red was adopted for all helmets. This new insignia superseded all of the previous shields depicted below. While the majority of Reichswehr insignia was hand painted or stenciled, in some rare cases decals were produced.""

Again many thanks,

Chris

[90th Light]

The helmet shown was made in austria in 1934 or '35 by the firm
of Artur Krupp Metallwarenfabrik in Berndorf to fulfill a contract they
had received from the austrian police.

So what you have is a Polizeihelm of the austrian police from the mid
thierties with a very nice outside paint in policegreen.
From your pics the inside looks to be painted in another color.

From the above said I must admit that I think that all the insignias and
Markings on your helmet are totally bogus.Sorry !

Best regards

Bernhard

Thank you Bernhard,

what you tell me in your posting is very interesting.

So this particular model of the M16 helmet was made in Austria in the 1930's ?

When would (A.Krupp) Berndorf have first made this particular model which came after the 1917/18 helmets they made in WW1 ?

Would it have been the 1920's/ early 1930's for the Austrian army & other branches of the armed forces or were the Austrian police the only customer for this one ?

Interesting that the paint looks period and to be Austrian "policegreen" from the 1930's. What colour did the Austrian army use ?

The markings, transfer and how they got on the helmet are puzzling to say the least. As is the excellent condition of the paint. Every thing including the chinstrap is correct for the period.

So far I have traced the helmet back to being in New Zealand before the country got the internet.

Personally I do not known what to make of it or how it got here to NZ except to say that when one hold it in hand, it feels correct. Just do not know however,

Chris

[Jägermeister]

Bernhard is right

The helmet shell was produced "long" (some years) after the Reichswehr decals (in this case blue/yellow for Braunschweig) were phased out.
These province colors were replaced by the black-white-red-decal and then replaced by the double decals, we all know (eagle with swastika on one side and b/w/r-decal on the other).

Also the shortening of the word "Braunschweig" in the inner rim is very unusual for the German language.

I would give it back - sorry.