Weimar Republic Colonial Service Award

[Ron P]

I picked this up from a fellow WA member who recently purchased an old collection. The Detlev book lists these as solely made by Karl Mobius in Berlin with the trademark number 33992 embossed on the reverse. The usual pin assembly is a safety pin affair. The one I have has the more traditional pin setup and no trademark number stamping. The obverse has engraving variations most notably being the palm tree fronds. It is a very crisp strike in silvered tombac. This may point to a different manufacturer or simply another die produced by Mobius. I have provided pictures of another badge for comparison. Regards, Ron.

[Ron P]

More pictures, different lighting.

[Don D.]

What is it made of?

[Ron P]

What is it made of?

It is silver or nickeled tombac.

[Don D.]

How much does it weigh?

[Ron P]

How much does it weigh?

I don't have a scale. I am convinced it's authentic, I'm just wondering if it is actually another maker, TR period,
or simply a later made Mobius without patent mark. Regards, Ron.

[Brian L.]

The Elephant Order has been widely faked for many years. I believe the one shown from Draco medals is a well known fake. The one you have is not one I would want, either. I very much doubt an original would lack the patent number that was given to Möbius. Karl Möbius was the designer of this badge as he was a well-known sculptor and medalist. Although I doubt he actually produced them. That wasn't his business. He was an artist. I don't know the maker of the badge. But, my guess would be either, Paul Küst or Heinrich Timm, Berlin as both firms made a lot of this type of non-official award in the 1920s. The ones that are generally accepted as genuine have a "Tell" - a die flaw that you never see on fakes. Since only about 8500 were ever issued/sold and since few were purchased after 1928 and sales ceased in 1939, it's highly unlikely that there were multiple makers (and therefore multiple dies) of the badge or that any were produced in the Third Reich. Any that were sold in the 1930s, likely came from old original stock, IMO.

[wilhelm Saris]

There can be multiple dies anyway. It is possible when struck, after 5 or 10 times, the dye could break. And so a new one had to be made!

[Brian L.]

There can be multiple dies anyway. It is possible when struck, after 5 or 10 times, the dye could break. And so a new one had to be made!

True. But, in this case, given the number of genuine badges on the market over the years having the exact same characteristics and flaw, it seems likely that there weren't multiple manufacturers or many different dies. More than one die seems likely. But, I think they would be cut by the same die maker and wouldn't vary greatly.

[Ron P]

The Elephant Order has been widely faked for many years. I believe the one shown from Draco medals is a well known fake. The one you have is not one I would want, either. I very much doubt an original would lack the patent number that was given to Möbius. Karl Möbius was the designer of this badge as he was a well-known sculptor and medalist. Although I doubt he actually produced them. That wasn't his business. He was an artist. I don't know the maker of the badge. But, my guess would be either, Paul Küst or Heinrich Timm, Berlin as both firms made a lot of this type of non-official award in the 1920s. The ones that are generally accepted as genuine have a "Tell" - a die flaw that you never see on fakes. Since only about 8500 were ever issued/sold and since few were purchased after 1928 and sales ceased in 1939, it's highly unlikely that there were multiple makers (and therefore multiple dies) of the badge or that any were produced in the Third Reich. Any that were sold in the 1930s, likely came from old original stock, IMO.

I agree that fakes abound and most are castings of various degrees of quality or lack of and all of which have the patent number. I wish I could post sharper pictures of mine to show the crisp detail of the obverse and the quality of the finish. Through a jewelers loop it has everything going for it. It is certainly not cast but rather struck. If it is fake it is scary. Regards, Ron.

[Ron P]

True. But, in this case, given the number of genuine badges on the market over the years having the exact same characteristics and flaw, it seems likely that there weren't multiple manufacturers or many different dies. More than one die seems likely. But, I think they would be cut by the same die maker and wouldn't vary greatly.

Mine is certainly a different die. As I said earlier, the palm fronds are very different and are almost touching the elephants back and the foliage is different. There are also differences in the elephants body contours.

[Brian L.]

I agree that fakes abound and most are castings of various degrees of quality or lack of and all of which have the patent number. I wish I could post sharper pictures of mine to show the crisp detail of the obverse and the quality of the finish. Through a jewelers loop it has everything going for it. It is certainly not cast but rather struck. If it is fake it is scary. Regards, Ron.

There are fakes of all kinds of badges that come from new dies. The infamous "Club" in Germany sells quite high-end pieces including the Elephant order that are die struck.

But, I'm certainly open to change my mind if you can provide better pictures some how that can prove this is a quality piece. However, sharp details and high quality aren't enough if it doesn't conform to how the badge was originally made.

[Ron P]

There are fakes of all kinds of badges that come from new dies. The infamous "Club" in Germany sells quite high-end pieces including the Elephant order that are die struck.

But, I'm certainly open to change my mind if you can provide better pictures some how that can prove this is a quality piece. However, sharp details and high quality aren't enough if it doesn't conform to how the badge was originally made.

Here is the same design that sold on emedals.

[Brian L.]

I don't like that one either. eMedals aren't infallible. Perhaps not knowingly. But, they've sold fakes in the past.

I don't like that narrow block hinge and the pointed needle pin. It's been used a many other high quality fakes such as various WWI war merit crosses and the Turkish War Medal (Gallipoli Star). Anyway, perhaps others will disagree with me. I'd like to hear from others as well.

[Ron P]

I don't like that one either. eMedals aren't infallible. Perhaps not knowingly. But, they've sold fakes in the past.

I don't like that narrow block hinge and the pointed needle pin. It's been used a many other high quality fakes such as various WWI war merit crosses and the Turkish War Medal (Gallipoli Star). Anyway, perhaps others will disagree with me. I'd like to hear from others as well.

Perhaps you can post what you consider a know original. I sure would like to see it.