Tunic stamp ID help.

[Eric Gaumann]

Gennosen, please help with identifying the stamps on this NVA officer's tunic.
Here some images of the tunic and the stamps. I've added alphabetic and numeric references to possibly help identify this tunic and perhaps others.

Column A, Row 1: NVA. East German Army (NVA) issue.
Column B, Row 1: m. Is this the date code? My sources state "M" (not the lower case 'm') as 1970. I think this tunic is much later than 1970.
Column C, Row 1: 48-0. 'Normal body, slightly thinner'?
Column A, Row 2: 1360. Possibly 1860. Either of the middle two numbers could be 3, 6, or 8. What does this stamp signify; manufacturer?
Column B, Row 2: blank
Column C, Row 2: A/2. Now I'm lost.

Here's one image with my reference marks photoshoped into place.

[Eric Gaumann]

And here's one image of the tunic, and a few of the stamps that were adjusted in Photoshop for reference. TIA comrades/genossen.

[Flash00TA]

The "M" is not the date code, it is part of the sizing. The tunic size is M48-0. The "M" represents the approximate length of the clothing......."M" is average, "K" is short, "SK" is very short, "G" is long and "SG" is very long. The "-0" is for the thickness of the wearer, "-0" is for someone a little skinnier and a "-1" is for someone a little chunkier. The four digit number is likely 1850 and it represents the jackets manufacturer. I'm not sure what manufacturer 1850 represents, but I'm sure there are others here on the forum that could help with that info. The date code is represented by the "A/2". The "A" is for 1977 manufacture and the "2" is for the second quarter of the year. Your uniform jacket was made in the second quarter of 1977. Hope this helps!

[Venturefan260]

The 1850 is indeed the manufacturer number. In East Germany, all businesses were nationalized into VEB's (Volkseigener Betrieb, People's own business). Each company had their own number which they used in their products. 1850 belonged to a clothing manufacturer called ''VEB Burger Bekleidungswerke, Werk Halle''.

-Joel

[Eric Gaumann]

Hope this helps!

It does indeed. Thank you both for your assistance.
Were these stamps consistent throughout the DDR? I assume the VM and the LSK had that same stamps, but do VP (or others) follow the same pattern?

[Venturefan260]

It does indeed. Thank you both for your assistance.
Were these stamps consistent throughout the DDR? I assume the VM and the LSK had that same stamps, but do VP (or others) follow the same pattern?

Yes, the stamp format was the same throughout all organizations (Except for shirts as those have their own size system and no other markings). I'm fairly certain all NVA tunics and trousers have the 1850 manufacturer mark. But there were other companies that produced clothing for the MdI (Interior ministry) so police clothing for example have different manufacturer codes, like 1802.

However, the stamp design did change a bit throughout the years. In earlier tunics from the 50's and 60's (and early 70's) the stamp is of a different design, and besides the usual info, the stamps can have a TGL number (Technische Normen, Gütevorschriften und Lieferbedingungen) which was a ''technical standard'' number. Also, tunics and trousers before 1968 used a direct year marking to denote manufacture date instead of a letter marking (for example, I/65). The stamps before 1968 also have a square shaped border around them.

Private purchase items did exist in the DDR, and those can have a bunch of varying VEB tailor tags instead of stamps.

-Joel

[Rev462]

It does indeed. Thank you both for your assistance.
Were these stamps consistent throughout the DDR? I assume the VM and the LSK had that same stamps, but do VP (or others) follow the same pattern?

Prior to about 1968 or so there was a different sizing system. Sizes were indicated by a two digit number, there were no letter prefixes or number suffixes.

Sizes occurred in roughly three groups: mid-20s (24, 25, 26, etc.), 50-ish (48, 50, 52, 56) and mid 90s to 100 - ish (96, 98, 102). I'm not sure of all the possible sizes they used but these are sizes I have observed.

The 20's sizes were short, so a size 24 would vibe roughly equivalent to an k44 or sk44. The 50's were average, so a size 52 would roughly equal to a g52 or maybe m52. The 90 to 100-ish sizes were "big & tall", so a size 102 would be roughly equal to a ug52.

In earlier days there was a lot more tailoring of tunics to fit, so for example a guy would get a size 50 tunic and maybe have the sleeves and waist altered. In the late 60's they wanted to accommodate more guys with "off the rack" tunics, thus the expansion of the sizing system with "m", "g", "sg" etc. designations.

Private purchase tunics could be completely made from scratch and could have a tailor label or no label at all. Sometimes private purchase tunics have size tags, which I think indicates that the guy bought a pre-made tunic and had it altered to fit. Sort of the same thing as going to Men's Warehouse and buying a sport coat off the rack and having it altered.

You will also see the word "Perlonhaltig" on some very early tunics and greatcoats. (1950s). "Perlon" was the name of the fiber that the material was made from and "Perlonhaltig" means "contains Perlon" or something like that. On somewhat later tunics (mid 60s - early 70s) and greatcoats you may see the word "Dederonhaltig". "Dederon" was also the name of the fiber - same fiber as Perlon but they re-named it "Dederon". Something having to do with copyright infringement of the name "Perlon" from what I understand. Don't know the whole story.

I've also heard it said that "Dederon" was a play on "DDR": De-De-Ron. Maybe???

Anyway, hope you didn't mind this little trip down the rabbit hole. If you add any early tunic or greatcoats to your collection you may see these markings.

[uscob]

Prior to about 1968 or so there was a different sizing system. Sizes were indicated by a two digit number, there were no letter prefixes or number suffixes.

Sizes occurred in roughly three groups: mid-20s (24, 25, 26, etc.), 50-ish (48, 50, 52, 56) and mid 90s to 100 - ish (96, 98, 102). I'm not sure of all the possible sizes they used but these are sizes I have observed.

The 20's sizes were short, so a size 24 would vibe roughly equivalent to an k44 or sk44. The 50's were average, so a size 52 would roughly equal to a g52 or maybe m52. The 90 to 100-ish sizes were "big & tall", so a size 102 would be roughly equal to a ug52.

In earlier days there was a lot more tailoring of tunics to fit, so for example a guy would get a size 50 tunic and maybe have the sleeves and waist altered. In the late 60's they wanted to accommodate more guys with "off the rack" tunics, thus the expansion of the sizing system with "m", "g", "sg" etc. designations.

Private purchase tunics could be completely made from scratch and could have a tailor label or no label at all. Sometimes private purchase tunics have size tags, which I think indicates that the guy bought a pre-made tunic and had it altered to fit. Sort of the same thing as going to Men's Warehouse and buying a sport coat off the rack and having it altered.

You will also see the word "Perlonhaltig" on some very early tunics and greatcoats. (1950s). "Perlon" was the name of the fiber that the material was made from and "Perlonhaltig" means "contains Perlon" or something like that. On somewhat later tunics (mid 60s - early 70s) and greatcoats you may see the word "Dederonhaltig". "Dederon" was also the name of the fiber - same fiber as Perlon but they re-named it "Dederon". Something having to do with copyright infringement of the name "Perlon" from what I understand. Don't know the whole story.

I've also heard it said that "Dederon" was a play on "DDR": De-De-Ron. Maybe???

Anyway, hope you didn't mind this little trip down the rabbit hole. If you add any early tunic or greatcoats to your collection you may see these markings.

You're right with the DDRon wordplay, do have it more international they added the e's for the Dederon.