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very nice find from the Fleamarket today

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    #31
    Originally posted by Ralph Pickard
    Hey Thälmannpionier...thanks for the reply with displaying other examples of your documents. Let me add this to why the location of the Dickel signature on the document was and is important to me...

    (My understanding) You bring up a good point about Generalinspekteur Karl Maron, but the date on the document was the first day when he became the minister of the Vopo (01 Jul 55). I believe that Maron signed the document before 01 Jul 55 and that his signature would have been under the signature block. Which if done below the signature block, meant that Maron was not yet the minister . Which is why I believe he signed the document before July 1955. And why the Dickel signature below the signatue block for me is important. I hope this makes sense...and comments very much welcomed!!!
    Hi Ralph...didn't know that it worked like that,with signatures on documents in the DDR(or maybe everywhere??) but its nice two learn more'n more here.i really like this forum,folks Would you say they have awarded the Urkunde and medal from 01 Jul 1955 to that date on purpose,because Maron became the minister??could bite my a$$ now,that I did not buy the whole lot ..
    cheers

    Hi Torsten
    I was just assuming he could have had some connections with Stasi,because there was this Invitation card of the Staatssicherheit within the bulk of Urkundes.Also it is a well known fact that on unofficial demonstrations and festivals in the DDR some undercover agents of the secret police were right in the middle of the Demo. Wearing little Pins on there jackets with the "D" for Dynamo to identify themselfs while observing..And when the raid of the Volkspolizei on the demonstrants started,they were already on the "frontline" to arrest them..They didn't use only Dynamo Pins,probably all sorts of Pins during the years..
    ...I also wouldn't be ashamed now to tell if i was in the SED..unfortunetly i was a bit young at this time...otherwise I would probably have joined the party,why not?it didn't has Disadvantages for yourself....I for myself don't care who and who wasn't in the party or anything else.I would rather find it interesting now to hear things from someone,who made experience in such organisation.I've found it also quite interesting how many people in the DDR turned out to been in the Stasi,just after the wall came down.Even my old neighbour from across the street(isn't alive anymore)was a Undercover Agent,his code name was Waldmann (Forestman) because I live in a little neighbourhood called Waldsiedlung( Forest-village).We had two Stasi Agents in our little neighbourhood but the other one was well known in the neighbourhood...I can remember one year when the Elections of the Parties were,this guy came with his little box where you can put in your voting letter and wanted to pick up ours.My father probably wasn't in the right mood this day and said to this guy he don't want to vote because he's not happy with the Things going on in the DDR...The guys face turned into deep red and he pointed his finger towards my dad and told him,if he wouldnt vote,then he will put him on the "black list".He didn't tell it nice to my father .Don't ask me what the black list was,i just remembered this story while writing this thread
    cheers
    Andreas
    Last edited by Thälmannpionier; 04-03-2005, 07:40 PM.

    Comment


      #32
      Originally posted by Thälmannpionier
      I was just assuming he could have had some connections with Stasi,because there was this Invation card of the Staatssicherheit within the bulk of Urkundes.Also it is a well known fact that on unofficial demonstrations and festivals in the DDR some undercover agents of the secret police were right in the middle of the Demo. Wearing little Pins on there jackets with the "D" for Dynamo to identify themselfs while observing..And when the raid of the Volkspolizei on the demonstrants started,they were already on the "frontline" to arrest them..They didn't use only Dynamo Pins,probably all sorts of Pins during the years..
      cheers
      Andreas
      absolutely true of course...and like I say, he might still have been in the Stasi, but that membership is absolutely no proof at all.. also, an invitation to a Stasi party again is no proof...he was a relatively high ranking VOPO officer and he would have been invited to all sorts of things and he would also absolutely certainly have been involved with the Stasi in one way or another..but we will just have to wait and see what other documents you can get on the next Flohmarkt to find out a little bit more about the man and his past... Cheers, Torsten.

      PS: Was he from Rathenow...? have you looked him up in the phonebook? Maybe he is still alive and lives near you somewhere and you could go and ask him directly??..

      Comment


        #33
        Originally posted by torstenbel
        absolutely true of course...and like I say, he might still have been in the Stasi, but that membership is absolutely no proof at all.. also, an invitation to a Stasi party again is no proof...he was a relatively high ranking VOPO officer and he would have been invited to all sorts of things and he would also absolutely certainly have been involved with the Stasi in one way or another..but we will just have to wait and see what other documents you can get on the next Flohmarkt to find out a little bit more about the man and his past... Cheers, Torsten.

        PS: Was he from Rathenow...? have you looked him up in the phonebook? Maybe he is still alive and lives near you somewhere and you could go and ask him directly??..
        good idea That would be interesting to ask him directly
        don't know if he is or was from here but I will have a look in the phonebook..the dealer isn't...but I think the person probably passed away and the dealer just picked it up somewhere.He hasn't really a clue about DDR stuff because he usally deals with all kind of flea market stuff.That was my Luck
        cheers

        Comment


          #34
          Hi Thalmannpioneer,

          The dealers that don't know the DDR Stuff are the best. They sell the items for prices that are more reasonable.
          Michael D. GALLAGHER

          M60-A2 Tank Commander Cold War proverb: “You can accomplish more with a kind word and a ‘Shillelagh’ than you can with just a kind word.”

          Comment


            #35
            That is true I am afraid... if you want to be a successful dealer you need to know what it is you are selling and you also need to buy it from sources that don't know what they are selling... at least, that is what I try to do... Cheers, Torsten (ebay id german.militaria).

            Originally posted by Michael D. Gallagher
            Hi Thalmannpioneer,

            The dealers that don't know the DDR Stuff are the best. They sell the items for prices that are more reasonable.

            Comment


              #36
              Originally posted by torstenbel
              if you want to be a successful dealer you need to know what it is you are selling and you also need to buy it from sources that don't know what they are selling Torsten (ebay id german.militaria).
              Torsten,
              I keep meaning to ask you: are you going to come to the UK shows this summer, War & Peace (July) Military Odyssey (August)? You could come either as a dealer (expensive -I presume) or as a visitor. You could tell us all the things we do wrongly... I know it is a long way to Kent from the Wirral. It is the same for me, I live in the North East, it is 500 km and I normally drive down with my Land Rover in a convoy of ex-military vehicles owned by friends. It takes ages because we have a friend with a big truck that does an average of 30 Kmh... But it is definitely worth it!! I have put together a fahnenkommando with a fake Truppenfahne that I have more or less sown myself... (sorry originals are not available... ) Another group is more active in combat gear but it is all great fun!!

              Comment


                #37
                Thank you very much for the invitation to party... I have looked at the War & Peace events before (in magazines, etc), but I have never been to any of the shows..actually, I have never been to any military related shows anywhere...Truppenfahnen are very difficult to come by and I would really like to know what happened to them all??..I never see any for sale anywhere.. although, I am not into re-enacting at all, I think that I would be quite interested in going to the show to have a look around, but this summer is a bad time...I already have two children, which do command a lot of time (not to mention the wife) and there is a third baby on the way right now (ETA is July this year) and the wife would kill me if I went swaning off to enjoy myself... but I would certainly be interested to see the Fahnenkommando that you have put together...why not post it here...? Don't worry, I am sure that no-one is going to take the micky... and I am sure that you might get some help in improving on it...but please do stay in touch and if you ever get to go to Liverpool or the Wirral, then just let me know and we could meet up for a pint or two... Cheers, Torsten (ebay id: german.militaria).

                Originally posted by iannima
                Torsten,
                I keep meaning to ask you: are you going to come to the UK shows this summer, War & Peace (July) Military Odyssey (August)? You could come either as a dealer (expensive -I presume) or as a visitor. You could tell us all the things we do wrongly... I know it is a long way to Kent from the Wirral. It is the same for me, I live in the North East, it is 500 km and I normally drive down with my Land Rover in a convoy of ex-military vehicles owned by friends. It takes ages because we have a friend with a big truck that does an average of 30 Kmh... But it is definitely worth it!! I have put together a fahnenkommando with a fake Truppenfahne that I have more or less sown myself... (sorry originals are not available... ) Another group is more active in combat gear but it is all great fun!!

                Comment


                  #38
                  I cannot post pictures on this forum. I have not figured out how to do it and I suspect I cannot do it as I am not a paying member. If you send me your email address by private message I can send it that way. The fate of the Truppenfhanen is much debated. The consensus is that they are gathering dust in the Museum in Dresden. Only reproductions ever appear for sale and those too very, very rarely. On the other hand, David H, on this forum, has got an original one and he has published some photographs here before for the delight of everybody...

                  It's a shame that you will not be coming but I appreciate that you are really under exceptional circumstances. Congratulations incidentally for the third child!!

                  Comment


                    #39
                    I sent you an email through the forum system...if you want, email the pics to me, start a forum thread to discuss it and I will post the pics for you... Cheers, Torsten.

                    Originally posted by iannima
                    I cannot post pictures on this forum. I have not figured out how to do it and I suspect I cannot do it as I am not a paying member. If you send me your email address by private message I can send it that way. The fate of the Truppenfhanen is much debated. The consensus is that they are gathering dust in the Museum in Dresden. Only reproductions ever appear for sale and those too very, very rarely. On the other hand, David H, on this forum, has got an original one and he has published some photographs here before for the delight of everybody...

                    It's a shame that you will not be coming but I appreciate that you are really under exceptional circumstances. Congratulations incidentally for the third child!!

                    Comment


                      #40
                      m

                      Comment


                        #41
                        Originally posted by torstenbel
                        Truppenfahnen are very difficult to come by and I would really like to know what happened to them all??..I never see any for sale anywhere..
                        If you do a search, you will find a thread here (a few weeks ago) which gives you details about where they are and also shows a fake one and the real one of the same unit.

                        Dag
                        Last edited by Dag; 04-05-2005, 05:15 PM.

                        Comment


                          #42
                          To get back to the question ref the Police officer. I spoke to a friend who was in the Volkspolizei and he explained to me that this was a rather normal thing. It was very much dependent on the position you held. The example he gave was of a member of the Betriebschutz (we had a thread for this before, I think). The guy was promoted from Wachtmeister to (Leutnant) Lieutenant when the (original) Police duty post became a Betriebschutz-post. After 25 years he was promoted to Oberleutmant(senior Lieutenant) and after another year to Hauptmann (Captain).

                          Cheers, Dag

                          Comment


                            #43
                            Originally posted by Dag
                            To get back to the question ref the Police officer. I spoke to a friend who was in the Volkspolizei and he explained to me that this was a rather normal thing. It was very much dependent on the position you held. The example he gave was of a member of the Betriebschutz (we had a thread for this before, I think). The guy was promoted from Wachtmeister to (Leutnant) Lieutenant when the (original) Police duty post became a Betriebschutz-post. After 25 years he was promoted to Oberleutmant(senior Lieutenant) and after another year to Hauptmann (Captain).

                            Cheers, Dag
                            Thanks alot..for your help and your friends "first hand Info"..so we finally found a result for this question
                            cheers
                            Andreas

                            Comment


                              #44
                              Originally posted by Dag
                              To get back to the question ref the Police officer. I spoke to a friend who was in the Volkspolizei and he explained to me that this was a rather normal thing. It was very much dependent on the position you held. The example he gave was of a member of the Betriebschutz (we had a thread for this before, I think). The guy was promoted from Wachtmeister to (Leutnant) Lieutenant when the (original) Police duty post became a Betriebschutz-post. After 25 years he was promoted to Oberleutmant(senior Lieutenant) and after another year to Hauptmann (Captain).

                              Cheers, Dag
                              Hi Dag,

                              Good to see you on the Forum. Thanks for researching this matter for us and clearing up a relatively somewhat gray area. What you say does make sense. I know I made rank when I was in Armour so fast I couldn't keep my uniforms up to date. Then I switched to the Army Criminal Investigation Command and suddenly I found my uniforms were falling apart from age, but the rank on them never seemed to change. Military Occupational Skills indeed seem to have played a major role relevant to one's rank. Based upon your research and findings, this seems to have transcended all Armies.

                              Cheers,
                              Michael D. GALLAGHER

                              M60-A2 Tank Commander Cold War proverb: “You can accomplish more with a kind word and a ‘Shillelagh’ than you can with just a kind word.”

                              Comment


                                #45
                                Dag, thank you...so, it possible then that man stayed at Hauptmann rank for 27 years... poor guy... Cheers, Torsten (ebay id German.Militaria).

                                Originally posted by Dag
                                To get back to the question ref the Police officer. I spoke to a friend who was in the Volkspolizei and he explained to me that this was a rather normal thing. It was very much dependent on the position you held. The example he gave was of a member of the Betriebschutz (we had a thread for this before, I think). The guy was promoted from Wachtmeister to (Leutnant) Lieutenant when the (original) Police duty post became a Betriebschutz-post. After 25 years he was promoted to Oberleutmant(senior Lieutenant) and after another year to Hauptmann (Captain).

                                Cheers, Dag

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