What's wrong with this photo - NVA on Parade

[John F.]

Anyone notice anything odd about this 1989, NVA on parade picture? This is from footage used in the film "Goodbye, Lenin!".

John

[Ralph P]

Hey John...They are all officers???

Anyone notice anything odd about this 1989, NVA on parade picture? This is from footage used in the film "Goodbye, Lenin!".

John

[AR-11]

Hello John, hello Ralph
yes, they all are officers.
Maybe it´s the marching-block of the "Militaerakademie".
We see in the foreground 2 offcicers without a Qualispange, two wearing the "old"-version and the rest wearing the "new" Qualispange.

AR-11

[John F.]

AR-11:

Hit the nail on the head and is corect. I think if they made the change to the new Qualispange in 1986, that by 1989 they probably all should have been switched over. Also I thought it odd that you don't see anyone wearing any academy type badges (the triangular shaped badge). Also, I have never seen a photo of an offcier wearing the Leistungsabzeichen, I thought this was an enlisted award. Can anyone tell what these award are that are pointed out by the red arrows? They look like the DGP Leistungsabzeichen but these guys don't look that old to be wearing a badge from the late 50's.

John

[Mike G.]

Hi John,

The Leistungsabzeichen der Nationalen Volksarmee, which first appeared in 1956, was authorized for wear by all NVA Ranks, up to and including Company Commander Officers.

No idea what the little round gold color badge is. Due to the poor quality of the photo, which prevents further inhancement, it can only be left to speculation.

What I find profound is as you and Dirk pointed out, that there are two types of qualification badges being worn in 1989. The former being of the type that was discontinued in 1985.

Perhaps Dirk, who so quickly spotted this inconsistency, can shed further light on the subject and why this was. I know I've had discussions on this before, and there was some conjecture that soldiers did get by with the wear of the older badges including Bester badges for example, if their respective Commanders permitted them to. I don't have any hard facts on this or confirmation from actual former NVA military. I agree it is peculiar.

[AR-11]

Hi Michael hi John,
I know it especially about the Artillery and there the thing with the Qualispangen behaved in such a way (because I experienced so myself):
It could not be provided immediately for all specialties the new kind of the Qualispangen. So it was for instance with the Artillery-Quali. When I graduated my first Quali, I received the old model at first. And I had to wore it!
At later time I recieved the new model (I believe it was at the end of 1988).
Thus it is absolutely possible that yet everybody has not received the new model.
The marchers are officers, but students! That´s the reason why they don´t wore the MAK-triangle!

In the Leistungsabzeichen I agree with Michael.

Hope it helps a little.

AR-11

[Dag]

Hi John,

The Leistungsabzeichen der Nationalen Volksarmee, which first appeared in 1956, was authorized for wear by all NVA Ranks, up to and including Company Commander Officers.

No idea what the little round gold color badge is. Due to the poor quality of the photo, which prevents further inhancement, it can only be left to speculation.

What I find profound is as you and Dirk pointed out, that there are two types of qualification badges being worn in 1989. The former being of the type that was discontinued in 1985.

Perhaps Dirk, who so quickly spotted this inconsistency, can shed further light on the subject and why this was. I know I've had discussions on this before, and there was some conjecture that soldiers did get by with the wear of the older badges including Bester badges for example, if their respective Commanders permitted them to. I don't have any hard facts on this or confirmation from actual former NVA military. I agree it is peculiar.

As I remember, those who earned their Klassifizierungsabzeichen before the new model came out could continue to wear it. However, if they then moved to the next level (maybe from level 3 to level 2) and were issued the new model, they had to wear that. If you already had achieved level 1 you could carry on wearing the old one. I remember some senior officers in our regiment (batallion commander, regimental technical officer, regimental commander) wearing it still when I left in 89. Once I achieved level 1 I proudly (and illegally) reverted to wear the old one with the T-34 (originally only issued for drivers) and nobody ever questioned me about it.

As for the gold badge: I'm not sure/can't remember (Dirk, help out please) where/if officers wore the Militaersportabzeichen on the parade uniform. It would certainly fit in size.

Dag

[AR-11]

I received my new Quali without next-higher Level, Dag. But this just can at the fact that there was before no special Artillerie-Quali.

And now if you wrote this, I also remember again! Who had the old Quali, this might farther carry. I believe, you are right.

AR-11

[AR-11]

As for the gold badge: I'm not sure/can't remember (Dirk, help out please) where/if officers wore the Militaersportabzeichen on the parade uniform. It would certainly fit in size.

Dag[/QUOTE]

Same as all the other Soldiers/N.C.O.´s: in the middle of the right brest-bag
(ohh god: Is there anybody who understand my English...?)

AR-11

[Mike G.]

Hello Dirk and Dag,

First Dirk, no problem understanding you. Your Englilsh and explanation are both excellant and well understood.

Both you and Dag have resolved the issue relevant the wear of the two different era types of qualification badges. It is now perfectly clear to all, and this is clearly something no book or reference could possibly have explained. So my sincere thanks to the both of you for helping out with this matter.

The Gold Badge that is not understood is the small round one that appears above the right breast pocket. Because of its location, it cannot be a Sports Badge. I am not sure it can be figured out, because the photograph will not pemit better or clearer view of it.

There was a silver and a gold color "Signal DDR 30" Abzeichen issued to the NVA in 1979. I don't know if Officer Students would be wearing such a badge in 1989, but perhaps that is what this badge is - the gold one.

The two officers kadets wearing this badge are both in my observation, too young of age to be wearing a "DGP Leistnungsabzeichen". However, the location at which this badge appears on the two uniforms, is where that kind of badge would be worn. Not really sure what the badge is.

[AR-11]

But it could be the "normal" Leistungsabzeichen! Officers wore that of course.
I have no other idea...

AR-11

[DaveM]

mix of both old and new

Re the points presented...

I think this photo is great cuz it illustrates the mix of both old and new... certainly an ongoing issue within the NVA
I don't think there is anything "odd" about it at all...

I have seen other photos of officers wearing Leistungsabzeichen as well as photos including mixed qualispanges....

I'm not sure but these soldiers do not look like officer cadets to me...
they look too old
as well, the LUFTSTREITKRÄFTE types coming up behind the guy on the left boards look like a hauptmann

[Mike G.]

Hi Dave,

Your observation about the Air Force Officer in the rear is correct - he is a Captain. Question Dave, do you have any thoughts on what the small round gold in color disk might be adjacent to the NVA Leistungsabzeichen ?

This one is a puzzle.

[DaveM]

maybe

Hi Michael,
not a clue...maybe Waffenbruderschaft-80 gold tinnie for officers?
I suppose if you went thru a book of badges you could find something of approximate size
cheers,
Dave

[Ralph P]

Hello all...this has been educational and informative...thanks Dag and Dirk for passing on your knowledge and assistance to the forum...