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The Dzierzynski Ehrenkompanie (Wache) Tunic

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    The Dzierzynski Ehrenkompanie (Wache) Tunic

    Goodday to all you fellow forum-members!

    Today, I’d like to bring back a somewhat older discussion, in this case focussing around an East German uniform that is scarcely seen – and therefore only lightly documented. I will try to get all my thoughts straight into this topic, though I might forget something in the chaos :P

    It’s about the elusive tunics for members of the Wachregiment Feliks Dzierzynski, serving as “Wache” (like the F. Engels ones had at the Neue Wache, but then – I believe – at important SED buildings).

    Some months ago, one of these tunics (presumably) made it’s way into my collection. It was a bit of an odd item. It had the very stiff “slip-on” FED cuff title, which was also sewn through the lining (opposed to the chevron and cuff tabs, I must add!). This raised suspicions and I started a topic on this way of attaching a cuff title to a tunic – you might remember. It went on to become an interesting topic, though it died – shortlived. Member Tom300 gave very interesting information as to the use of these titles: prior to the late 70’s, they were not consequently worn. He received this information from several (I remember reading about 10 testemonies) FED-“veterans”. They would put the title on for specific happenings – parades and ceremonies – and take it off while on different duties. This way, titles sewn through the lining appear to be an anomaly, though not an impossibility: they would be sown on “for good” when the wear of the cuff title became rule on all occassions.
    Still, at that point I explicitly chose not to link the whole tunic to the cuff title-discussion, as the latter might cast a shadow over the dicussion on the former. Well, now it’s up for discussion. And not just this one! Last week, I got my hands on yet another one of these tunics (just to clarify; the difference lies in the precense of white piping around the collar).
    And guess what? It has the same “slip-on” title – sewn through the lining as well. Comparing the sewing on both titles, they appear a full match. The second tunic has the chevron originally sewn, as well as the collar tabs (see the pictures to form your own opinion on that for both tunics: I believe it looks all-ok). The lack of cuff tabs would’ve caused a problem (as the Wache tunic would have been used solely as a parade one and – produced in 1976 – would have had to have the tabs mounted), though there’s traces of them on the sleeve (see pics). They have been removed with care – possibly to use after 1982?
    Finally: I would like now to tell you something I already thought several months ago while seeing the Wache-pic on the “Dzierzynski-Soldaten” cover. Especially in the colour picture, it does really seem like the chap is wearing the slip-on title as well. The way it sits on his arm, not wrinkled or folded in any way, might explain why the Wache used these titles instead of the possibly cheaper ones that were used on other FED-tunics.

    Please do share your opinions!
    As a sidenote: the tunics did not originate from the same seller - nor do both sellers live in the same country either.

    The pictures:

    Tunic 1: Overview (I apologize for the wrinkledness).


    Tunic 1: Collar Tabs front and rear.


    Tunic 1: stamp (1/1976).


    Tunic 1: Cuff tabs and title, front and rear.



    Tunic 1: cuff title, inside.




    Tunic 2: overview.


    Tunic 2: collar tabs front and rear.


    Tunic 2: stamps (1/1976 also).


    Tunic 2: sleeve (title) front, closeup of patten-area and rear.




    Tunic 2: cuff title (inside).


    Note the similarity in construction:


    And just for reference, these were the pictures I talked about earlier in my post (note the cuff title on the colour-picture: it looks like it's "wider" than the sleeve, which might be because of it's stiffness being a slip-on title):



    I'm sorry for the length of my post, but I'm very interested to get to the bottom of these tunics (and, perhaps, the title-discussion)!

    Thanks in advance for any comments!

    #2
    Hello Jan !
    I think I saw the tunic on ebay last week...

    I would have another question regarding its construction : does it have the metal ring inside, the one to attach the dagger to ?

    Does the other one have it too ?

    Thanks !
    Olivier

    Comment


      #3
      Another strange thing regarding the pictures... maybe this has been discussed already ?
      In both pics, the same guy... once carrying the SKS rifle and the other the AKM !
      The place where the picture was shot is obviously the same, prior to 1982 (due to the cuff bars)...

      Comment


        #4
        Originally posted by olivyaya View Post
        Hello Jan !
        I think I saw the tunic on ebay last week...

        I would have another question regarding its construction : does it have the metal ring inside, the one to attach the dagger to ?

        Does the other one have it too ?

        Thanks !
        Olivier
        That is very possible - it was on there last week

        To answer your question: yes. It does have the dagger hanger - and so does the other one. Yes, this opens the way for the "rebuilt officer tunic"-theory - so let's have it

        Comment


          #5
          Jan,

          Interesting comparing the two tunics from your collection to the two pictures. One of the things that has occupied a lot of our discussion in the past the regulations concerning where the cuffband would be attached to the tunic. NVA regs list a specific distance between the top of the cuff and the bottom of the cuffband. If I remember correctly the distance was 1 cm. That is only a guess as I am about 800 kms from my reference material and can not check the regs. However, in the picture in this thread the cuffband appear to be attached right at the top of the sleeve cuff. Perhaps someone who has studied the FED tunics more than I hace can comment on the regs for attaching a cuffband to these tunics.
          Teh sewing on the collar tabs looks good to me.

          Regards,

          Gordon

          Comment


            #6
            Wearing the title close to, or even touching the cuff piping was normal with FED tunics (and NVA-Wachregiment, for that matter). The Engels tunics do indeed have this ±1cm distance between piping and cuff, per regulations.

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by Jan Klaassen View Post
              That is very possible - it was on there last week

              To answer your question: yes. It does have the dagger hanger - and so does the other one. Yes, this opens the way for the "rebuilt officer tunic"-theory - so let's have it
              Thank you for your answer... we all know officer tunics could be used by professional NCOs and troops, therefore with Mannschafts collar tabs and cuff bars... which means all those tunics do have the dagger metal ring inside... we all have examples in our collections, at least I assume...

              What keeps puzzling me is that I know some special tunics were made for the WachRgts : they are officer tunics (with Mannschafts insignia) but WITHOUT the dagger metal ring inside ! I do have a few in my collection, including a Stasi one...
              Which leads to another question : were those tunics the rule from the start ? Were they made only from a certain year ?




              Comment


                #8
                Jan
                are both of your tunics dated R (1976) ? and do you remember when the FD vets said the cuff title was made to be sewn permanent to all of their tunics ?

                Comment


                  #9
                  Olivyaya, thanks for these pictures! I do own one of the "F. Engels" special tunics as well, with their distuingishing "elastic bands". The FED tunics used for "Wache" seem to have no such special parts to seperate them from their "normal" brothers used for other purposes... It is puzzling that your FED-one does not have the ring for the dagger - still it is dated 1983 (who knows what changed during the 7 years)... I believe it does not have the slip-on title (from what I can see on the pictures)?

                  Tony: yes, both are 1/R tunics. According to the vets, this happened somewhere during the later half of the 70's (some even say the early 80's) - though this might just be with their own uniforms. In the book "Die Garde des Erich Mielke", it says that "from may 1977 on" the title was worn constantly, which matches what some of the vets say. So perhaps they were sown on in the factory from 1977 on - and sown on the already issued tunics gradually the following years (just going out on a limb here)...

                  Comment


                    #10
                    your tunics fit the time patteren perfectly coupled with what the vets and other sources stated.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by Jan Klaassen View Post
                      Olivyaya, thanks for these pictures! I do own one of the "F. Engels" special tunics as well, with their distuingishing "elastic bands". The FED tunics used for "Wache" seem to have no such special parts to seperate them from their "normal" brothers used for other purposes... It is puzzling that your FED-one does not have the ring for the dagger - still it is dated 1983 (who knows what changed during the 7 years)... I believe it does not have the slip-on title (from what I can see on the pictures)?
                      The title is perfectly sewn onto the sleeve, not through the lining, as per regulation. Obviously done in the factory !

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Thanks tony james and olivyaya for the follow-up posts!

                        Can anyone shed some light as to why both tunics shown in my first post have the dagger hanger ring thingy? I cannot imagine they have been of any use to the wache soldier :P

                        Comment


                          #13
                          i noticed my officer engels tunic that has the exact internal straps like olivyaya's also has the exact same date. that may be worth noting for future reference. the engels tunics are the only wach tunics that so far that seem to have these straps.one thing we must keep in mind about the FD tunics is that they were used for ceremonial duties like the other wach regiments but also as a division sized combat group. NCO/EM tunics with dagger hangers in them in my opinion are officer production line tunics with lower ranks collar tabs sewn on them to streamline production and keep costs down rather than set up a seperate production line just for lower ranks tunics when the only big difference is collar tabs.
                          Last edited by tony james; 05-25-2013, 05:52 PM.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            My thoughts exactly - good thing I'm not alone with that point of view

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by tony james View Post
                              i noticed my officer engels tunic that has the exact internal straps like olivyaya's also has the exact same date. that may be worth noting for future reference. the engels tunics are the only wach tunics that so far that seem to have these straps.one thing we must keep in mind about the FD tunics is that they were used for ceremonial duties like the other wach regiments but also as a division sized combat group. NCO/EM tunics with dagger hangers in them in my opinion are officer production line tunics with lower ranks collar tabs sewn on them to streamline production and keep costs down rather than set up a seperate production line just for lower ranks tunics when the only big difference is collar tabs.
                              Totally agree as well... but the production of tunics without the metal ring just means they did not add the strap and the ring at its end... when manufacturing the officer tunics... the construction is indeed exactly the same (unless I missed something), just the "dagger device" is missing. If they deliberately did it, this means the tunics were destined for some special use...
                              Last edited by olivyaya; 05-26-2013, 12:45 PM.

                              Comment

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